Guy
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Youse reckon you can cross out of China at for example Lao Cai?
Iām more of an A Tsai fan, myself.
And if Iām going to be spending my hard earned cash as a visitor, it wonāt be in a nation that constantly threatens to invade us. Thereās lots of other interesting places to visit.
Guy
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Youād need the Vietnam visa in advance? Isnāt the Vietnam evisa at airports only or something? Thereās a super cheap Kunming to Bangkok flight that I had my eye on as an option.
Kunming Chiang Mai would also be an option I guess
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Surprised with Canadians not surprised with Americans being not included
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Canada has been in Beijingās doghouse since it arrested the PRCās precious Huawei princess at Vancouver International Airport (she was wanted in the US for lying to banks about financial matters, and she was trying to avoid the US by transiting in Canada); Beijing responded by scooping up two Canadians in the PRC and detaining them, basically as hostages.
As noted above, I wonāt be visiting there any time soon.
Guy
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The Canadian government later paid one of the two Michaels $6 million, admitting that he was used as a spy by the other Michael (who was a spy for Canada) without his consent
Also Trudeau and Xi not on good terms:
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The article you linked quote Guy St-Jacques (no relation to me lol):
Former Canadian ambassador to China, Guy Saint-Jacques, Kovrigās former boss, said the settlement does not mean Kovrig was a spy.
āA spy would use clandestine approaches as means to get want he wants. In this case it was totally transparent,ā he said.
Saint-Jacques said Spavor was unique because he was a foreigner who had access to North Koreaās leader.
āThe federal government probably recognized his way of living. Itās impossible now for him to go back and live in China and organize tours in North Korea. This is a major disruption to his lifestyle and work prospects,ā Saint-Jacques said.
So yes there was interest in Canada in what North Korea is like nowadays. How this ties to the timing of the arbitrary detentions of the Michaels in the PRC is something forumosans can decide for themselves.
Guy
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I want to visit again itās been a while, particularly some tea growing areas. China isnāt so convenient as other countries to travel though ( credit cards and cash and restrictions on where to stay ) and you are often surrounded by Chinese tourists, obv. Also itās a huge country so it takes time to get around, often flight delays , and masses of people at stations and airports ā¦food is terrible in those places. Air pollution very bad in winter although beijing on a clear blue sky sunny day is really nice.
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I think since itās a settlement, they donāt have to admit he was a spy. However the lawsuit was due to him being used by the Canadian government for espionage.
But letās look at Wikipedia as another reference:
āNovember 2023, Spavor sought a multimillion-dollar settlement against the federal government for involving him in espionage activities without his knowledge. Michael Spavor reached a $7 million settlement deal with the Canadian government in March 2024.ā
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Yes it does appear he was relaying what he saw in North Korea, as not many people get to visit North Korea.
Now think about our lives in Taiwan. We know some things about Taiwan. Is it worth detaining us too? According to recent accounts, Taiwanese are getting detained in the PRC as well. Itās almost like a pattern here isnāt it.
Guy
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Usa, canada and the UK ( and probably a bunch of other countries ) still not in the program.
Hurry up.
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Some passports are better than others 
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You make a pretty compelling case there. However the draw of being able to stand in front of an Alderaanesque landscape whilst singing the theme song from Terrence and Phillips asses of fire specifically for the benefit of @afterspivak is just too much.
Iāve had super awesome memorable experiences off the beaten track. However the wind ups getting to such experiences were often pretty high on the Richter scale too. Last time I passed through Guangzhou I thought I could walk from my accommodation to the HSR, for an early morning train, oh my god, it turned into a bad reenactment of the movie Labyrinth, complete with revolving walls and everything 
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I have seen very little of China, basically the cities and almost nothing else except day trips.
Iām eager to explore more but as we live in Asia thereās a lot of great places to go with much less hassle. Also the visa requirement was a massive turn off until now. Expensive and cumbersome.
I used to fly around it for work , often a new city everyday , and the last place I wanted to vacation on Earth at the time was there !
If you are into ceramics , wood crafts and tea itās the place to visit though. Incredibly skilled.
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One thing that I am wondering now is what about hotels? I hear they are sometimes difficult for foreigners?
Ah yea, I hear ya. I am definitely going to dip my toe now that itās visa free. After that the question is whether to roll the dice and go rural off the path for a potentially memorable and unique - although potentially also stressful - experience, or just say you know what, I think Iād rather just chill by a beach in Thailand. With two kids in tow its a difficult call. Thailand is super convenient too. Decisions, decisions 
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Which cities would you suggest for those?
I could be wrong here, but I think the story is that if you are not Chinese you have to notify your address to the police. If its a hotel they do it for you. And apparently some donāt want the hassle of doing that so they turn foreigners away. I never experienced it directly.
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