China Unduly Influencing Taiwan

Politics Taiwan Politics
1

There is a lot more information out there in Chinese about how China is unduly influencing Taiwanese politics, but there is at least some English information available.

I just wanted to share with you guys some of the “conspiracy theories” certain people have, that is not available in English:

  • The KMT had the election in January, rather than March as usual, because they wanted to obliterate the Green strongholds of the South. Basically, for college/university students studying in Taipei that support Green, they’d have to go back South in order to cast their ballots… but, one week before Chinese New Year’s and during exam time?! Undoable for many, impractical for most. On the other hand, students that support Blue are already at home in Blue strongholds of Taipei… and even if Taichung, not very far. The voter turnout for northern cities was close to 75%, whereas Tainan, for example, was only 68%.

  • China stopped allowing tourists to come to Taiwan in the weeks up to the election, probably for two reasons. The first reason is so that “Taishang” (Taiwanese businessmen conducting business in China) would have flights to get back and vote Blue. The other reason being that they didn’t want their people to see democracy in action… although, that’s blatant, it’s no conspiracy.

  • And the most sinister conspiracy: Hu Jintao was given a mandate and a team to reunify Taiwan by peaceful and economic means by the end of Ma’s second term. Barring that, they would result to force. Ma is playing right into their hands, as are the Taiwanese business leaders - such as HTC’s Sherry Wang or Foxconn’s Terry Gou - who publicly declared their support of the KMT. Why would business leaders do such an un-businesslike thing? Pressure from China. Threats from China.

Here’s a great article to read: taipeitimes.com/News/taiwan/ … 2003523512

The Chinese democracy activist mentioned in the article, Wang Dan, has some great pieces in the Chinese version of the Taipei Times (The Liberty Times) about how China is using economic factors to influence Taiwan, how Taiwanese are already starting to self-censor, etc.

Is it about time to move to a new country?!?!

2

The turnout in Tainan was 74%, not 68%. Also, I believe most students finished their exams on the Friday before the election.

3

I thought you could only vote, where you are registered, which is in most cases for students, the family home.

4

Having to go home is not such a hardship as to be undoable. Taiwan is not a very big place, it’s not that tough to go from north to south (especially with high speed rail).

5

Except when every other man and his dog is doing the exact same thing …

6

dogs can vote these days?

7

[quote=“shawn_c”]

  • The KMT had the election in January, rather than March as usual, because they wanted to obliterate the Green strongholds of the South. Basically, for college/university students studying in Taipei that support Green, they’d have to go back South in order to cast their ballots… but, one week before Chinese New Year’s and during exam time?! Undoable for many, impractical for most.[/quote]

FWIW I took the HSR to and from Taipei on election day and again on the Sunday. It was, strangely, less full than it normally is on weekends and even though I was expecting bedlam, my pre-booked tickets proved unnecessary.

[quote=“shawn_c”]

  • China stopped allowing tourists to come to Taiwan in the weeks up to the election, probably for two reasons. The first reason is so that “Taishang” (Taiwanese businessmen conducting business in China) would have flights to get back and vote Blue. The other reason being that they didn’t want their people to see democracy in action… although, that’s blatant, it’s no conspiracy.[/quote]

Sorry, but calling flat out BS on that one, on election day I was taking a visiting friend from London around the Palace Museum. It was crawling, literally crawling, with Chinese tour groups, sadly the same was true for Confucious Temple, Taipei 101 and other tourist sites we visited over election weekend, so I doubt very much that anything in the way of restrictions on commie tourists were really implemented by Beijing or anyone else.

8

This is just fear mongering from the green camp, pure and simple. Fact is China is fine with the status quo and using economic and soft power to bring Taiwan in and will remain so at the end of Ma’s second term. There’s nothing special about the end of Ma’s second term that’ll make China want to say “ok, reunify now or else.” Of course when 2016 comes and go and nothing happens, the greenies will probably just come up with a new date, kind of like those people who are predicting apocalypse.

9

Hey, how else do you think they arrange the “correct” election result, then? Cartoon characters and dead people are too easy to spot. :wink:

I’m surprised that the average DPP supporter hasn’t understood that the DPP doesn’t have any actual plan for averting reunification (forced, soft, or otherwise). China will do what they’re gonna do. Merely “not being in favour of” unification isn’t going to stop it happening if China decide to get nasty.

10

But China taking over Taiwan IS the Apocalypse.

11

300 000 expat Taiwanese returned to Taiwan in order to vote. If they can make it back here, some flying in from the US or Europe to vote, university students can certainly jump on a bus to southern Taiwan if need be.

12

[quote=“cfimages”][quote=“shawn_c”]

  • The KMT had the election in January, rather than March as usual, because they wanted to obliterate the Green strongholds of the South. Basically, for college/university students studying in Taipei that support Green, they’d have to go back South in order to cast their ballots… but, one week before Chinese New Year’s and during exam time?! Undoable for many, impractical for most. On the other hand, students that support Blue are already at home in Blue strongholds of Taipei… and even if Taichung, not very far. The voter turnout for northern cities was close to 75%, whereas Tainan, for example, was only 68%.

[/quote]

300 000 expat Taiwanese returned to Taiwan in order to vote. If they can make it back here, some flying in from the US or Europe to vote, university students can certainly jump on a bus to southern Taiwan if need be.[/quote]

There is an important difference. These are expats who returned regardless of the generic inconvenience of travelling to Taiwan. I do not believe that the date in question was especially inconvenient for them. Whereas it’s arguable that the date of the election made it more inconvenient for students to travel home to the south just for the election.

Can anyone confirm with certainty when Taiwanese university students break up for the holidays and if there is an absolute final exam date for everyone (and if so what it is)?

13

I certainly think you’re right that mainland China influenced the elections. I don’t think you’ve done a very good job of proving “unduly”.

God, I hope so.

14

[quote=“Cueball”][quote=“cfimages”][quote=“shawn_c”]

  • The KMT had the election in January, rather than March as usual, because they wanted to obliterate the Green strongholds of the South. Basically, for college/university students studying in Taipei that support Green, they’d have to go back South in order to cast their ballots… but, one week before Chinese New Year’s and during exam time?! Undoable for many, impractical for most. On the other hand, students that support Blue are already at home in Blue strongholds of Taipei… and even if Taichung, not very far. The voter turnout for northern cities was close to 75%, whereas Tainan, for example, was only 68%.

[/quote]

300 000 expat Taiwanese returned to Taiwan in order to vote. If they can make it back here, some flying in from the US or Europe to vote, university students can certainly jump on a bus to southern Taiwan if need be.[/quote]

There is an important difference. These are expats who returned regardless of the generic inconvenience of travelling to Taiwan. I do not believe that the date in question was especially inconvenient for them. Whereas it’s arguable that the date of the election made it more inconvenient for students to travel home to the south just for the election.

Can anyone confirm with certainty when Taiwanese university students break up for the holidays and if there is an absolute final exam date for everyone (and if so what it is)?[/quote]

Bus / train / HSR / plane from Taipei to the south Friday night, vote Saturday morning, return Saturday evening if necessary. No problem, no major inconvenience.

15

Not sure about the college students, but I can tell you of 50 contractors (laborers), supervisors and a couple of engineers who worked for me on Saturday instead of heading home to vote since they will not be working during CNY, hence making no money. And I tell you, the plants were loaded with workers who all worked that day to make up for the missed worked coming up, busiest Saturday I have seen in a long time. I am not sure how many would’ve voted if they would have went home as they normally do on Fridays/Saturday morning, but it is a fairly hot topic these past few days.

16

[quote=“cctang”]I certainly think you’re right that mainland China influenced the elections. I don’t think you’ve done a very good job of proving “unduly”.

God, I hope so.[/quote]

China?

17

[quote=“Cueball”]300 000 expat Taiwanese returned to Taiwan in order to vote. If they can make it back here, some flying in from the US or Europe to vote, university students can certainly jump on a bus to southern Taiwan if need be.

There is an important difference. These are expats who returned regardless of the generic inconvenience of travelling to Taiwan. I do not believe that the date in question was especially inconvenient for them. Whereas it’s arguable that the date of the election made it more inconvenient for students to travel home to the south just for the election.

Can anyone confirm with certainty when Taiwanese university students break up for the holidays and if there is an absolute final exam date for everyone (and if so what it is)?[/quote]

I can’t speak for every university in Taiwan, but my 22-year-old niece is a student at National Taiwan Normal University (Shi-Da) in Taipei. Her exams ended on Friday morning, she had no problem hopping a train back to Taitung (where we live) on Friday afternoon, and she voted on Saturday. She has no more classes or exams until after the CNY holiday. It’s probably a reasonable guess that all the national universities followed this schedule - private universities of course have no obligation to do so.

The Taipei Times has been whining incessantly about this “issue.” I think it’s totally bogus. If the election had been held in March instead of January, the students would still need to go home to vote. The fact that the legislative elections and presidential elections were both held on the same day makes it EASIER for students to go home and vote, since they only need to make the trip once rather than twice. Plus they go home for CNY anyway, whereas in March they have no need to do so. If anything, holding the election on January 14 should have increased student participation.

This sounds like a more legitimate complaint. However, hard to say how those workers would have voted. The Taipei Times whine was that students, being younger and more idealistic, tend to vote DPP, while older and more “pragmatic” folks (with their minds sharply focused on their pocketbooks) are more likely to vote KMT.

18

[quote=“cfimages”][quote=“Cueball”][quote=“cfimages”][quote=“shawn_c”]

  • The KMT had the election in January, rather than March as usual, because they wanted to obliterate the Green strongholds of the South. Basically, for college/university students studying in Taipei that support Green, they’d have to go back South in order to cast their ballots… but, one week before Chinese New Year’s and during exam time?! Undoable for many, impractical for most. On the other hand, students that support Blue are already at home in Blue strongholds of Taipei… and even if Taichung, not very far. The voter turnout for northern cities was close to 75%, whereas Tainan, for example, was only 68%.

[/quote]

300 000 expat Taiwanese returned to Taiwan in order to vote. If they can make it back here, some flying in from the US or Europe to vote, university students can certainly jump on a bus to southern Taiwan if need be.[/quote]

There is an important difference. These are expats who returned regardless of the generic inconvenience of travelling to Taiwan. I do not believe that the date in question was especially inconvenient for them. Whereas it’s arguable that the date of the election made it more inconvenient for students to travel home to the south just for the election.

Can anyone confirm with certainty when Taiwanese university students break up for the holidays and if there is an absolute final exam date for everyone (and if so what it is)?[/quote]

Bus / train / HSR / plane from Taipei to the south Friday night, vote Saturday morning, return Saturday evening if necessary. No problem, no major inconvenience.[/quote]

You’ve ignored my comment. I’m not saying it’s IMPOSSIBLE or even ALWAYS inconvenient. I’m saying that the TIMING may have been inconvenient. And there’s also an argument that voting should be convenient, not a mission of having to travel to one end of the country to the other.

19

[quote=“Cueball”][quote=“cfimages”][quote=“Cueball”][quote=“cfimages”][quote=“shawn_c”]

  • The KMT had the election in January, rather than March as usual, because they wanted to obliterate the Green strongholds of the South. Basically, for college/university students studying in Taipei that support Green, they’d have to go back South in order to cast their ballots… but, one week before Chinese New Year’s and during exam time?! Undoable for many, impractical for most. On the other hand, students that support Blue are already at home in Blue strongholds of Taipei… and even if Taichung, not very far. The voter turnout for northern cities was close to 75%, whereas Tainan, for example, was only 68%.

[/quote]

300 000 expat Taiwanese returned to Taiwan in order to vote. If they can make it back here, some flying in from the US or Europe to vote, university students can certainly jump on a bus to southern Taiwan if need be.[/quote]

There is an important difference. These are expats who returned regardless of the generic inconvenience of travelling to Taiwan. I do not believe that the date in question was especially inconvenient for them. Whereas it’s arguable that the date of the election made it more inconvenient for students to travel home to the south just for the election.

Can anyone confirm with certainty when Taiwanese university students break up for the holidays and if there is an absolute final exam date for everyone (and if so what it is)?[/quote]

Bus / train / HSR / plane from Taipei to the south Friday night, vote Saturday morning, return Saturday evening if necessary. No problem, no major inconvenience.[/quote]

You’ve ignored my comment. I’m not saying it’s IMPOSSIBLE or even ALWAYS inconvenient. I’m saying that the TIMING may have been inconvenient. And there’s also an argument that voting should be convenient, not a mission of having to travel to one end of the country to the other.[/quote]

I agree that it should be as convenient as possible. However the date has been known for a long time and there’s nothing stopping students ensuring they are registered where they live rather than where they are from. They had plenty of time to arrange that.

Having two elections on one day actually makes it more convenient as only one trip home is required.

And you know full well that if Tsai won, no one in the dpp would be complaining about timing or inconvenience.

20

[quote=“cfimages”][quote=“Cueball”][quote=“cfimages”][quote=“Cueball”][quote=“cfimages”][quote=“shawn_c”]

  • The KMT had the election in January, rather than March as usual, because they wanted to obliterate the Green strongholds of the South. Basically, for college/university students studying in Taipei that support Green, they’d have to go back South in order to cast their ballots… but, one week before Chinese New Year’s and during exam time?! Undoable for many, impractical for most. On the other hand, students that support Blue are already at home in Blue strongholds of Taipei… and even if Taichung, not very far. The voter turnout for northern cities was close to 75%, whereas Tainan, for example, was only 68%.

[/quote]

300 000 expat Taiwanese returned to Taiwan in order to vote. If they can make it back here, some flying in from the US or Europe to vote, university students can certainly jump on a bus to southern Taiwan if need be.[/quote]

There is an important difference. These are expats who returned regardless of the generic inconvenience of travelling to Taiwan. I do not believe that the date in question was especially inconvenient for them. Whereas it’s arguable that the date of the election made it more inconvenient for students to travel home to the south just for the election.

Can anyone confirm with certainty when Taiwanese university students break up for the holidays and if there is an absolute final exam date for everyone (and if so what it is)?[/quote]

Bus / train / HSR / plane from Taipei to the south Friday night, vote Saturday morning, return Saturday evening if necessary. No problem, no major inconvenience.[/quote]

You’ve ignored my comment. I’m not saying it’s IMPOSSIBLE or even ALWAYS inconvenient. I’m saying that the TIMING may have been inconvenient. And there’s also an argument that voting should be convenient, not a mission of having to travel to one end of the country to the other.[/quote]

I agree that it should be as convenient as possible. However the date has been known for a long time and there’s nothing stopping students ensuring they are registered where they live rather than where they are from. They had plenty of time to arrange that.

Having two elections on one day actually makes it more convenient as only one trip home is required.

And you know full well that if Tsai won, no one in the dpp would be complaining about timing or inconvenience.[/quote]

Yes, overall turnout in DPP areas was slightly lower than in KMT areas (but not by much - turnout in Kaohsiung was less than 1% lower than than in Taipei, In Tainan it was about 2% lower) . Generally speaking the more rural the area, the lower the turnout - distant Jinmen had a turnout of under 50%. But the slight difference in turnout was not enough to effect the result, Ma won by a very comfortable margin.