# Chinese Characters I Always Forget How to Pronounce **URL:** \ **Category:** Learning Chinese\ **Tags:** learning-chinese\ **Created:** [January 18, 2024, 9:38am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/chinese-characters-i-always-forget-how-to-pronounce/237028 "2024-01-18T09:38:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 19
**Author:** ![tempogain](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/user_avatar/tw.forumosa.com/tempogain/32/264650_2.png) [@tempogain](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/tempogain)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2025, 6:15am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/chinese-characters-i-always-forget-how-to-pronounce/237028/361 "2025-05-29T06:15:26Z")
Can’t recall that one. I think I’ll remember it now though. ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Milker](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/user_avatar/tw.forumosa.com/dr_milker/32/181996_2.png) [@Dr\_Milker](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/Dr_Milker)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2025, 6:17am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/chinese-characters-i-always-forget-how-to-pronounce/237028/362 "2025-05-29T06:17:48Z")
> [@tempogain](#): > > Can’t recall that one. Not as common as 仿冒品, 山寨版. ---
**Author:** ![tempogain](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/user_avatar/tw.forumosa.com/tempogain/32/264650_2.png) [@tempogain](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/tempogain)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2025, 6:22am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/chinese-characters-i-always-forget-how-to-pronounce/237028/363 "2025-05-29T06:22:13Z")
I thought of 假貨. ---
**Author:** ![hannes](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/user_avatar/tw.forumosa.com/hannes/32/161150_2.png) [@hannes](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/hannes)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2025, 6:22am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/chinese-characters-i-always-forget-how-to-pronounce/237028/364 "2025-05-29T06:22:21Z")
> [@Dr\_Milker](#): > > 寨 If you asked me to give you the bopomofo for that one I wouldn’t know whether it’s zai or zhai… 😄 ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Milker](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/user_avatar/tw.forumosa.com/dr_milker/32/181996_2.png) [@Dr\_Milker](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/Dr_Milker)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2025, 6:23am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/chinese-characters-i-always-forget-how-to-pronounce/237028/365 "2025-05-29T06:23:31Z")
It’s from China, so you have to pronounce it… > [@hannes](#): > > zhai ---
**Author:** ![hannes](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/user_avatar/tw.forumosa.com/hannes/32/161150_2.png) [@hannes](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/hannes)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2025, 6:44am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/chinese-characters-i-always-forget-how-to-pronounce/237028/366 "2025-05-29T06:44:47Z")
I never really looked into why I have always been unsure about the pronunciation of 幸,ㄒㄧㄥˋ, as in Happiness. The culprit all along has been the 辛, ㄒㄧㄣ, in Xinhai Road. 😡 ---
**Author:** ![hannes](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/user_avatar/tw.forumosa.com/hannes/32/161150_2.png) [@hannes](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/hannes)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2025, 7:00am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/chinese-characters-i-always-forget-how-to-pronounce/237028/367 "2025-05-29T07:00:04Z")
The very fact that a doctor is doing the milking is highly suspect to begin with. ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Milker](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/user_avatar/tw.forumosa.com/dr_milker/32/181996_2.png) [@Dr\_Milker](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/Dr_Milker)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2025, 7:11am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/chinese-characters-i-always-forget-how-to-pronounce/237028/368 "2025-05-29T07:11:06Z")
> [@hannes](#): > > The very fact that a doctor is doing the milking is highly suspect to begin with. What? I have a Ph.D. in animal husbandry… ---
**Author:** ![hannes](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/user_avatar/tw.forumosa.com/hannes/32/161150_2.png) [@hannes](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/hannes)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2025, 7:18am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/chinese-characters-i-always-forget-how-to-pronounce/237028/369 "2025-05-29T07:18:37Z")
Right ![Screenshot 2025-05-29 151825](https://forumosauploads-12829.kxcdn.com/original/3X/e/8/e83cd55916d3c2fc679f1118f9378f7bbf922459.png) ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Milker](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/user_avatar/tw.forumosa.com/dr_milker/32/181996_2.png) [@Dr\_Milker](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/Dr_Milker)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2025, 7:28am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/chinese-characters-i-always-forget-how-to-pronounce/237028/370 "2025-05-29T07:28:28Z")
![image](https://forumosauploads-12829.kxcdn.com/original/3X/3/1/31e4566869a3478486539ce292df05a9df28c4a1.jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![hannes](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/user_avatar/tw.forumosa.com/hannes/32/161150_2.png) [@hannes](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/hannes)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2025, 9:24am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/chinese-characters-i-always-forget-how-to-pronounce/237028/371 "2025-05-29T09:24:37Z")
Just saw this character in a restaurant name: 彧 Looks like someone wrote it wrongly. 😆 ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Milker](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/user_avatar/tw.forumosa.com/dr_milker/32/181996_2.png) [@Dr\_Milker](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/Dr_Milker)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2025, 9:28am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/chinese-characters-i-always-forget-how-to-pronounce/237028/372 "2025-05-29T09:28:54Z")
> [@hannes](#): > > 彧 New one for me. Apparently it’s an alternate form of 郁. ---
**Author:** ![hansioux](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/user_avatar/tw.forumosa.com/hansioux/32/253648_2.png) [@hansioux](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/hansioux)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2025, 12:41pm UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/chinese-characters-i-always-forget-how-to-pronounce/237028/373 "2025-05-29T12:41:28Z")
Usually reserved for knockoff antiques ---
**Author:** ![hansioux](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/user_avatar/tw.forumosa.com/hansioux/32/253648_2.png) [@hansioux](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/hansioux)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2025, 12:47pm UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/chinese-characters-i-always-forget-how-to-pronounce/237028/374 "2025-05-29T12:47:11Z")
> [@hannes](#): > > Just saw this character in a restaurant name: 彧 > > Looks like someone wrote it wrongly. 😆 Most Taiwanese male in their 30s or above only learned this word from playing 三國志. There is a very famous advisor to Cao Cao named 荀彧. ---
**Author:** ![hansioux](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/user_avatar/tw.forumosa.com/hansioux/32/253648_2.png) [@hansioux](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/hansioux)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2025, 1:40am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/chinese-characters-i-always-forget-how-to-pronounce/237028/375 "2025-06-24T01:40:35Z")
Recently saw a pretty popular history youtuber in Taiwan who claimed in one of his episodes that the character 石, no matter used in whatever context, should and has always been read as shí [ʂɻ̩˧˥]. He claimed that reading it as dàn [tan˥˩] when 石 is used as a unit of weight has been wrong from the start, and it is only tolerated because so many people read it wrong. I think that’s just plain wrong. Consider characters such as 拓 /tʰuo/ and 妬 /tu/, both were said to sound the same as 石 in Shuowen Jiezi (說文解字) and other rhyme books, they both starts with dental and alveolar plosive, just like the dàn [tan˥˩] reading. To get to 石’s many modern readings across Sinitic languages (by that I mean Taigi and Mandarin), there are three common sound changes at play. In Old Chinese, 石 is most likely pronounced as /\*dAk/. The first thing that happened was [the /t/ \> /ts/ \> /s/ \> /∅/ sound change](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/the-t-ts-s-phenomenon-across-sinitic-languages/86363). I went over that in that previous thread in detail. Some quick examples for that sound change would be 跌 t /秩 ts /失 s and 特 t /持 ts /寺 s. So in Middle Chinese, the most common initial vowel sound of 石 became ts, such as Taigi’s tsio̍h, and that eventually became s, such as Taigi’s si̍k and Mandarin’s shí. The second sound change was [the loss of final stops resulting in au and ou diphthongs](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/au-and-ou-diphthongs-as-a-result-of-loss-of-final-stops/214310). Again, details in that thread, but basic examples would be 覺(kak \> jiau), 教(kah \> jiau), 角(kak \> jiau), and 拓(thak \> thou), 國(kok \> gou), and 薄(po̍k \> buo, bau), 落 (la̍k \> luo, lau), 著 (tio̍h \> zhuo, zhau), 酪(lo̍k \> luo, lao). From -uu you can go a step further to just -u, 塑(sok \> shou, shu), 獨(to̍k \> tu), 度(to̍k \> tu), 毒(to̍k \> tu). In same rare cases you can even get a schwa, like 各(kok \> kə. This sound change is what got 拓 and 妬 from /\*dAk/ to /tʰuo/ /tu/. The final sound change, is the even lesser known effect of the loss of final stops resulting in nasalization, /-p/, /-t/, /-k/, /-h/ \> /-n/. Examples of this phenomenon: 厭(iap \> ian), 勿(but)/吻(bún), 妲(tat)/旦(tàn), 掠(lia̍h, lio̍k, la̍k)/京(kiann). This last one is what get 石 /\*dAk/ to dàn [tan˥˩]. So not only is it linguistically sound for 石 to be pronounced as dàn [tan˥˩], since the third sound change seems to be the first one to have taken place, dàn [tan˥˩] is probably the oldest pronunciation of all possible pronunciations of 石. ---
**Author:** ![hannes](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/user_avatar/tw.forumosa.com/hannes/32/161150_2.png) [@hannes](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/hannes)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2025, 3:01am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/chinese-characters-i-always-forget-how-to-pronounce/237028/376 "2025-06-24T03:01:28Z")
That post scores full points on the nerd scale. 😗 In the early days l wrote Mt. Liushishi in an article and l was ridiculed by an editor for that. There is no right and wrong in a language. It’s most often just common use verses rare use and those two can switch over time both ways. ---
**Author:** ![hansioux](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/user_avatar/tw.forumosa.com/hansioux/32/253648_2.png) [@hansioux](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/hansioux)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2025, 3:05am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/chinese-characters-i-always-forget-how-to-pronounce/237028/377 "2025-06-24T03:05:10Z")
> [@hannes](#): > > In the early days l wrote Mt. Liushishi in an article and l was ridiculed by an editor for that. That’s why I post them here where I’m am the editor, and I’d be lucky if I get ridiculed by my peers, cause that means someone bothered to read it. ---
**Author:** ![hannes](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/user_avatar/tw.forumosa.com/hannes/32/161150_2.png) [@hannes](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/hannes)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2025, 6:14am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/chinese-characters-i-always-forget-how-to-pronounce/237028/378 "2025-08-05T06:14:12Z")
冗 (rǒng) as in 冗長 (rǒngcháng), meaning “long-winded”, “verbose” I have seen this character often, never bothered to check its pronunciation, until today. Thought it would be shen or chen, because there is 沉 (chén), “to sink” There seems to be no other common character that contains 冗. ---
**Author:** ![hansioux](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/user_avatar/tw.forumosa.com/hansioux/32/253648_2.png) [@hansioux](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/hansioux)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2025, 6:39am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/chinese-characters-i-always-forget-how-to-pronounce/237028/379 "2025-08-05T06:39:16Z")
It would appear that for sink, 沈 was the right character, and 沉 was just a common mistake. However, technically 湛 was the character for sink, and 沈 started out as just a short hand. 沈 actually meant a deep pool on top of a hill. 冗 itself mean a person resting under a roof with nothing to do. It’s been pronounced as /d͡zong/ or /d͡zióng/ since the very beginning. ---
**Author:** ![hannes](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/user_avatar/tw.forumosa.com/hannes/32/161150_2.png) [@hannes](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/hannes)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2025, 6:43am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/chinese-characters-i-always-forget-how-to-pronounce/237028/380 "2025-08-05T06:43:12Z")
> [@hansioux](#): > > 冗 itself mean a person resting under a roof with nothing to do. It must have been a very rare occurrence during the Han Dynasty or whenever this character first made an appearance. 🙂 [Previous page](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/chinese-characters-i-always-forget-how-to-pronounce/237028.md?page=18) [Next page](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/chinese-characters-i-always-forget-how-to-pronounce/237028.md?page=20)