Chinese immigrants and foster parents fight for 5-year-old

Discussion Open Forum
1

Who gets the baby?

  • the foster family
  • foster parents
  • biological parents

0 voters

Here’s a custody case about a young Chinese girl in Tennessee. The parents were wed through an arranged marriage and went off to the States where the man began studying medicine. They soon had the child and, feeling unable to properly care for it, gave it over to a foster family. The arrangement was supposed to be temporary and the mother and father visited every weekend … until tensions arose between the two couples. The Chinese couple demured and stayed away for several months, resulting in legal “abandonment” that automatically gave the foster family full custody

2

David, you have presented a very biased view of the IHT article that you link to. Yes, “there’s more”, but practically all of it supports the biological parents’ assertions, including such items as how the foster mother blocked the biological parents from visitation and denied them the right to spend time alone with their daughter.

The biological parents are very obviously being railroaded by a legal system that they don’t understand – and one which is inherently biased against them. Foster agencies and families are paid a stipend by the state government, and so have a direct disincentive to return a child. Social workers also have a built-in bias against biological parents, since they don’t want to lose their “clients” – there are far too many social workers churned out by U.S. colleges and they need the work. (It’s a lot like lawyers manufacturing lawsuits when they’re unable to find real cases.)

The American foster family is acting much like the Taiwanese family in the Brazilian boy’s case which ended last month – using stalling tactics and fraud (lying that they had a “verbal agreement” to adopt the child) to try to steal a child, not to mention their ridiculous culturally-biased assertion that since baby girls in China aren’t valued, the girl would have a bad life there.

Your statement that the Chinese community is “decrying” the biological parents’ right is a very bizarre word choice. “Decrying” is a synonym for “denouncing”. What you wrote is the exact opposite of what is happening – according to the IHT article, the Chinese community is supporting the biological (Chinese) parents.

The only negative to the biological parents’ case is that the husband was accused – and acquitted – of sexual assault, which cost him his scholarship and job and wrecked their finances. But since he was acquitted, this cannot be held against him in court, and IMHO shouldn’t be held against him privately.

Since you are a reporter, I have to wonder if you’re doing a story on this and are trying to draw reaction from the foreign community. I can’t imagine that you would have presented such a slanted view of the IHT article otherwise.

That said, the only news I have seen on this is that IHT article and your post. If there is more, I’d be interested, but from these it sounds like a fairly straightforward case. I hope the Hes get their daughter back.

3

It’s anything but a “straighforward” case.

The US legal system may indeed be biased against them, but I would argue that foster agencies, rather than having a “disincentive” to return children to their biological parents, have an incentive to provide them the best care they can. After all, there’s a reason the biological parents gave up the child in the first place. The onus is on them to prove beyond a doubt that they’re now able to provide the child proper care.

4

The child should be returned to the parents.

5

[quote=“US$0.02”]It’s anything but a “straighforward” case.

The US legal system may indeed be biased against them, but I would argue that foster agencies, rather than having a “disincentive” to return children to their biological parents, have an incentive to provide them the best care they can. After all, there’s a reason the biological parents gave up the child in the first place. The onus is on them to prove beyond a doubt that they’re now able to provide the child proper care.[/quote]
In this case the reason, clearly stated, was that the biological parents lost much of their income and were in financial distress. They are now returning to China, where presumably they will be able to provide for their daughter quite adequately – they have had five years to improve their English skills (which helps in China), not to mention the husband’s education at a U.S. school (prestige), so they should be able to get decent-paying jobs.

As for the system’s bias, it has been pretty well documented that the foster-care system is thoroughly broken and corrupted by politics. The horror stories abound, from scandals like the “OK Boys Ranch” on down to single-child cases like the Hes’. Children are left in foster-care homes where they are abused, all while their biological parents are being blocked from reuniting with them despite the foster home abuse. Look at the Wenatchee Witchhunt cases – there are families where the children had to run away to Canada until they turned 18, just to escape from the clutchces of the state authorities. Detective Robert Perez forced his “foster daughter” to make up horrendous stories about child sex abuse so he could jail people who had spoken out against him on earlier (also false) charges; one theory on it is that some state officials were trying to punish people who testified in the civil suit (in which the state lost tens of millions, maybe hundreds of millions, in damages – and the suits are still going on).

The Hes don’t have to prove anything “beyond a doubt”; they SHOULD be able to get their daughter back at any time – she is THEIR daughter, and as long as they are not abusing her (which they weren’t), there is no reason not to give her back to them – the system isn’t meant to provide babies to rich parents, just to protect those who are at risk of harm.

6

My borther is a social worker for a semi-governmental agency in Tennessee. What’s his job? Placing and monitoring foster children. He may actually be involved in this case. I’m going to email him and try to find out more. Even if he’s not involved, he probably knows a lot about it.

7

I’ve emailed my brother and my dad, who is a lawyer in Memphis. This case highlights many areas of the cultural misunderstanding that Chinese immigrants fall into when they go to the States. While I sympathize with their situation and hope they can get their child back, the Hes should have gotten legal advice in the beginning. Chinese people in the States just don’t understand this. Chinese immigrants usually don’t understand the weight of contracts and signed agreements in a society ruled by law. When I was a student in Tennessee, I had a few Chinese friends from Taiwan, Malaysia, etc. They had abolutely no respect for any contracts they signed. Countless times I heard them say “oh, that contract is just a piece of paper.” Maybe in Taiwan or Malaysia, but in the States it’s worth something. To them, a contract is just an abstract document describing the beginning of a relationship, not a document that lays out all details of a relationship. I’m sorry to say it, but the Hes may have to pay a very high price for having that sort of attitude. I can’t imagine a judge giving a damn about their failure to seek professional legal advice before signing an agreement. Lawyers? Tigerman?

8

Can someone PLEASE explain to me why Chinese/Taiwanese will have a child (usually a female) and then drop it off with Grandma, Auntie or someother yahoo and leave for the next decade. I’ve been told it’s because it’s “bufangbian” to take care of the kid.

Right now I have a good friend in Taipei whose daughter is 17 and lives in Tainan. When she was about 2 months old Mom decided she didn’t want to have to take care of her and sent her to live down south (my friend is ever so slightly “pussy whipped”). They have had very little contact with her over these past 17 years. My sister-inlaw’s daughter is living down in Miaoli. She’s 4. It’s too much trouble to take care of her in Taipei.

Anyway, I guess it’s better than drowning them in a bucket at birth.

:unamused:

9

Well, many Taiwanese believe a child is essentially an investment in the future, so where better to see your investment mature than in the granny bank?

10

Yes, wrong choice of words. I also somehow messed up the poll. The choices were posted twice (maybe a nice Moderator might help fix that?). I really shouldn’t try posting in the wee hours.

Otherwise, MaPo, I think you’re reading my bias incorrectly. I posted the article because I don’t really know what call I’d make

11

Yes, this is very true of Chinese immigrants in the US. However, it is true of many US citizens as well. When I was practicing in Pittsburgh, I occassionally handled family law cases, including divorce, custody and support, and guardian matters. The documents that were filed with the court ALWAYS had in red text a message advising the parties to seek independent legal advice. This advice was printed because some people, whether citizens or aliens, would never think to consult an attorney (until it was too late to do so).

In the article linked to in the original post of this thread:

If this is true… it is, IMO, unexcusable. How could the Agency and Court have failed to suggest that the Hes discuss the agreement with an attorney?

I think the child should be returned to the Hes.

12

[quote=“momphard”]Otherwise, MaPo, I think you’re reading my bias incorrectly. I posted the article because I don’t really know what call I’d make

13

I think they should send the kid to Brazil. Or Gaoxiong.

14

I would suggest that the judge ask the following question to the Chinese parents, in relation to their daughter’s future situation –

When your daughter reaches the age of twenty, if she is working full-time or part-time outside of your home, will she be entitled to keep the money she earns, or should she turn it over to you?

I believe that by getting the answer to this question, the judge will be better able to understand the Chinese parents’ attitudes toward child rearing and human rights.

15

Agree. Grandparents across the way take care of the kid while buckethead goes about life. I should also mention that the grandparents are real transplanted hayseeds and the father is a real prick.

Unless there was willfull intent to deceive by the US couple, I have to say that ignorance of the law is no excuse. If they didn’t know what constituted abandonment then they should have done a little homework. It’s only their fucking child! :fume:
Any foreigner who made such a balls-up of it here because they didn’t know the law would get no sympathy from the majority of the Forumosa poster, I am sure.

And what sort of university gives out doctoral degrees to people who can’t speak English? How did this guy even get into school?

16

i don’t have too much sympathy for someone who was too busy to take care of their own kid. that’s just irresponsible. if they didn’t follow the provisions of the law like they should have, well they should have.

17

Duh. Why didn’t I just Google them!?

Here’s a link to the family rights association’s page set up specifically for the He family’s case.

familyrightsassociation.com/horror_stories/he/

Speaking of biases, MaPo, read the first sentence: “In Memphis, Tennessee, a wealthy family named Jerry and Louise Baker stole a child from a poor Chinese family.”

The page contains several links to news reports about the case dating back to early 2002, including 6 letters written by the Consul General of the Embassy of the People’s Republic of China in DC to the presiding judge:

hunanfellow.com/article24.htm

A lot of what’s on FRA’s page makes for convincing reading, but I still come back to the fact that they gave up their baby. Putting a child in foster care is not like putting your dog in a kennel while you’re out of town. So what if they didn’t understand the legal ramifications; they gave up their baby! My first niece didn’t leave my brother or sister-and-law’s sight for THREE years before they got up the courage to leave her with a babysitter, and then they were home by 8:30.

I hate thinking that this girl’s fate (at least the first part of it) is being decided as a matter of contract law. Maybe the judge should threaten to cut the girl in half and give a part to each side. (and to think that Solomon was considered wise. Hm.)

18

But they didn’t. They put the baby into foster care in which they had weekly visitation rights and the expectation of getting her back when their finances improved. There is a major difference between that and “[giving] up their baby”.

The question of whether they understood their legal rights or not can’t be dismissed so casually with a “so what?”. Unfair contracts have been negated by the courts frequently – go look at some of the “recording artists” who have gotten out of their record contracts because MCA or Sony was screwing them too harshly. Oh, sure, a child isn’t nearly as important as several million dollars in royalties :unamused: , but I think the court will consider that carefully, especially in light of the Hes being blocked from visitation through questionable legal action on the part of the Bakers.

Foster care is not abandonment. The Hes only paused visitation (and shortly thereafter tried to reclaim their child) when they were prevented by police and court order, after the Bakers threw a snit when the Hes wanted to take the child out of the Bakers’ home for a family portrait:
tennessean.com/local/archive … D=42608886

19

Speaking English isn’t a prerequisite for having a brain, nor is being able to speak English evidence of having much of one. (Just look at John Kerry.)

20

This is a very common trend among Chinese immigrant parents in the United States. It happens to both male and female children, usually infants or toddlers – a very crucial stage of development for such a profound separation to occur. The kids get a double emotional whammy in this regard … once when the parents send them away, and again when they are taken back from the relatives who have often developed strong bonds with them.

The reason is almost always related to the parents’ job or studies … i.e., in order to get ahead and make more money, they need to do this. The World Daily News (daily Chinese paper) has stories and advice columns about this all of the time. The parents are from all kinds of economic backgrounds, both illegal and legal status. They see nothing wrong with the logic of sending their kids back to the mainland to stay with relatives for months or years, although some will admit to feeling sad or depressed.

We have a friend from the mainland who did this recently. At first the story was she didn’t want to do it, and was heartbroken, but her husband made her do it, in order to study for the LSATs and make a lot of money as a lawyer. When I asked (through my wife, who hangs out with her a lot) why didn’t she just say no, the response came back, actually he didn’t make her, only encouraged her, and the wife thought it made sense, as she needs to concentrate, the period of separation was only six months, and the daughter will be with family in Beijing.

My opinion of the Tennessee story is the Hes’ “financial hardships” were probably not that dire at all. Lots of poor illegal immigrant parents with legal problems get by in the US without having to give up their children, why should the Hes be any different? However, this early lack of responsibility and ignorance of the law shouldn’t prevent them from having custody of their daughter.

And of course, it is the daughter who has been the true victim in this sorry case. I am not optimistic that things will turn out well for her …