But you’d be a better person if you were… 
[/quote]
Perhaps I should stop listening to the Clash… 
[quote]ludahai wrote:
mesheel wrote:
Actually, when i visited mainland at a time I didn’t speak Chinese I loved it. Once I understood, what people were talking behind my back, I hated it. Today…I don’t care anymore…stare at me, point at me, talk behind my back, spit next to my feet…what ever…your just a mainlander…=)
Yeah, and when they figure out that you can speak Chinese, they just revert to their native, local language when speaking with each other. The Shanghainese are the worst for this.
Note: Taiwanese never do this [/quote]
the thing is, if they do and they know that you know, that they are talking bad about you, they at least feel ashamed and apologize. not so the mainlanders…
[quote=“mesheel”][quote]ludahai wrote:
mesheel wrote:
Actually, when i visited mainland at a time I didn’t speak Chinese I loved it. Once I understood, what people were talking behind my back, I hated it. Today…I don’t care anymore…stare at me, point at me, talk behind my back, spit next to my feet…what ever…your just a mainlander…=)
Yeah, and when they figure out that you can speak Chinese, they just revert to their native, local language when speaking with each other. The Shanghainese are the worst for this.
Note: Taiwanese never do this [/quote]
the thing is, if they do and they know that you know, that they are talking bad about you, they at least feel ashamed and apologize. not so the mainlanders…[/quote]
I think you’re a little bit too sensitive for this part of the world. In fact, for most parts of the world. People talk behind your back everywhere: do you think immigrants in Europe don’t talk amongst each other about the locals behind their backs ? Do you think foreigners in Taiwan don’t talk about the locals behind their backs ? Come on !
I found being lied to and robbed blind at every step on the mainland was far more annoying than some peasant from Anhui who’d been in Shanghai a week gabbering about me behind my back.
If they would talk BEHIND my back, I’d be really happy. But what I experienced in mainland is, that they just do it in front of you, right into your face. That is what I have a problem with.
Ummm … I take it you’re not in Taiwan … 'cuz they do that here too. Although some would like others to think that Taiwanese and Mainland Chinese are soooo different, other than per capita income on one side of the strait being higher than the other, there really isn’t much of a difference, IMO, after having lived in both places. The peasant from Anhui you mention in a previous post is in Taiwan too, except he’s driving a black Mercedes and smoking Davidoff designer cigaretttes instead of something he rolled himself in his straw hut … materially they may be different, but the attitude is virtually the same.
Little Buddha,
I find your posts some of the best on forumosa; completely different from the anti-western crap on your website a while back. I remember Vork taking you to task for the stuff you had written on your website, and I agreed with him. Now I find your posts well-written, informative and accurate. Why the difference?
I lived both in mainland and Taiwan and still think Taiwanese are different. But I admit, didn’t get out of Taipei much and lived in Anhui for a while…=) Whatever…I like to live in Taiwan and feel comfortable, not so in mainland. There i feel like an animal in the zoo…
I guess different people just have different experiences. I felt the opposite, I suppose because I expected that kind of reaction in the mainland, especially since I was not living somewhere like Beijing or Shanghai (I lived in Xi’an, which is a bit more backward). I can’t stand the stares and shouts of “waiguoren” here because I feel that it’s inappropriate in a place like Taipei where people see foreigners all the time, it is more modernized, and one would think the general level of education would be higher. Anyway …
[quote=“LittleBuddhaTW”]
I can’t stand the stares and shouts of “waiguoren” here because I feel that it’s inappropriate in a place like Taipei where people see foreigners all the time, it is more modernized, and one would think the general level of education would be higher. Anyway …[/quote]
I don’t think I hear this in Taipei very often at all. Maybe I’ve just learned to tune it out, but my feeling is that Taipei people could really care less if you are a foreigner. I like it that way. When I do hear people say something, I notice that they look like they are from out of town.
I think I failed to elucidate my point sufficiently. It’s not only the verbal comments, but the body language and facial expressions that I’m faced with because I’m a foreigner. If I go into a convenience store that I’m not a regular customer at, I get the scared or shocked look, or if I actually need service somewhere (be it the bank, Chunghwa Telecom, mobile phone store, computer service center, or wherever) there are the usual flustered responses, giggling, and frantic searching for someone who can speak English (even though I explained my problem or need to them in Chinese – and considering NTU finds my Chinese good enough to study for my M.A. in their Dept. of Chinese Literature, I think my Chinese should at least be intelligible to a 7-11 clerk). Being that Taipei is crawling with foreigners, I’m assuming that many people in the service industry have had to deal with foreign customers before, or at least should be prepared that the possibility exists that they may one day encounter one of the “foreign devils.” I’m not saying that this happens every day, but at least several times a week … enough to keep me regularly annoyed and frustrated.
Don’t be so sure. After 11 years of successfully asking for cigarette lighters in Chinese, a 7-11 clerk in Yong He the other day could not after several attempts understand my request for a “da huo ji”. (You should have seen the things he was pulling out from under the counter… )
I have to agree with you. I have lived in Shandong and Shanghai, and have travelled extensively throughout China as well as Tibet. I find that the Chinese are so much more uncouth when it comes to foreigners than those here in Taiwan. The children will often say waiguoren here, but they are cute so it doesn’t bother me. I rarely get it from the adults, though it happens on occasion. In China, it was frequent and blatant, even in Shanghai. BTW, I have lived both in rural Changhua County and in urban Taichung City. Taiwanese are far more sophisicated than Chinese in my experience.
In what way ?
Well, HK is offically part of the Mainland now, and a large part of its current population are recent ‘immigrants’ from Guangdong…
I’ve noticed that Taiwanese believe they are quite different from HKers… this sunday TT articleshows some of their biases (as well as HKer biases about TW)
[quote]The Taiwanese also hold mis-understandings toward the people of Hong Kong. They say their only goal is to make money and that they don’t have any culture.
But Taiwanese do not quite understand the professionalism of the people of Hong Kong and its law-binding society. Hong Kongers trust the bar more than their government.[/quote]
HKers have no culture? WTH does that mean? :?
In what way ?[/quote]Perhaps ludahai means ‘modern’ or ‘worldly’… I’d go along with that to a certain extent. But that’s simply because the mainland is just starting to connect to the rest of humanity.
Taiwanese don’t strike me as sophisticated at all. A ‘typical’ Taiwanese who-
*thinks this ugly, polluted place is actualy a beautiful island
*thinks the food in Taiwan is actually somehow the most delicious in the world
*looks down on people with dark skin
*wears flip-flop slippers in public
*thinks the image of a girl dressed like a cheap whore selling betel nut as she sits behind a glass window surrounded by gaudy neon lights is ‘beauty’
- ect. etc. etc. …
-is not sophisticated.
[quote]Taiwanese don’t strike me as sophisticated at all. A ‘typical’ Taiwanese who-
*thinks this ugly, polluted place is actualy a beautiful island
*thinks the food in Taiwan is actually somehow the most delicious in the world
*looks down on people with dark skin
*wears flip-flop slippers in public
*thinks the image of a girl dressed like a cheap whore selling betel nut as she sits behind a glass window surrounded by gaudy neon lights is ‘beauty’ [/quote]
*Actually Taiwan IS a beautifufl place, if it weren’t polluted and if the Taiwanese would appreciate its beauty more. Big cities with lots of stuff to do, mountains for hiking, ocean, sand beach, palm trees and a lot of sun…what do you want more?
*Taiwanese food IS delicious, but that of course, you can’t tell, if you only go to night markets or cheap places
*Well, racism is a problem everywhere in the world and in that perspective Taiwanese are not better or worse than any other people. I’m sure everybody remembers the videos on which several white cops beat up a black person…
*Besides going down the street to get something at 7-11 or the like, I’ve not seen any body wearing flip-flops. Compared to Europe where flip-flops are the dernier crie and can cost up to 600NT or more, Taiwanese people don’t were them as a stylish accessory
I don’t really understand guys like you? Why the hell do you come to Taiwan, if you don’t like it at all? Is it just for the money and the chicks or is there actually an other reason?
WARNING: This post is off topic
[quote=“mesheel”]*Actually Taiwan IS a beautifufl place, if it weren’t polluted and if the Taiwanese would appreciate its beauty more. Big cities with lots of stuff to do, mountains for hiking, ocean, sand beach, palm trees and a lot of sun…what do you want more?[/quote]Do you agree it is polluted ? Then it’s not so beautiful.
[quote]*Taiwanese food IS delicious, but that of course, you can’t tell, if you only go to night markets or cheap places[/quote]But most of the food I seem to eat comes from nightmarkets and cheap places, and that food does count as Taiwanese.
[quote]*Well, racism is a problem everywhere in the world and in that perspective Taiwanese are not better or worse than any other people. I’m sure everybody remembers the videos on which several white cops beat up a black person…[/quote]Why does everyone remember it ? Because we were shocked and concerned about it and we know it is wrong. How many Taiwanese people care about racism (that isn’t against Taiwanese) ? That’s the difference, we care about racism, which is a big step to getting rid of it. It seems many Taiwanese can’t make that step.
[quote]I don’t really understand guys like you? Why the hell do you come to Taiwan, if you don’t like it at all? Is it just for the money and the chicks or is there actually an other reason?[/quote]People are here for many reasons, not always by choice, and don’t always have the option to leave, no wonder you can’t understand if you can’t see that.
I respect the previous poster’s position, but I believe that the food in Taiwan is indeed some of the most delicious in the world.
That’s one small thing that keeps me here–knowing I can get some of the best food, from an inexpensive bowl of beef noodle soup to a steamer of dumplings to teppanyaki. Sichuan, Shandong, Shanghai, Guandong, even Xian cuisine are available at the drop of a hat.
Don’t even get me started on some of the great Japanese, Viet Namese, and Thai food.
Organic food is available if you want it, Belgium beers–I guess this is veering off-topic, but I belive that people in Taiwan have every reason to be proud of the excellent food available here.
Yeah, Hong Kong has some good (and expensive) grub and I also enjoyed the food in China, especially the food in Sichuan and in the little restaurant opened by Sichuan immigrants in Qinghai, Gansu, and other parts of the west.
But Taiwan, in particular Taipei, has them all beat.
fee, none of the food you talked about is “Taiwanese”. I agree however that there is great eating in Taipei, but none of it is native, despite the best efforts of the locals to “Taiwanesify” it. Sichuan food here normally does not contain Sichuan peppers (花椒) and is therefore not really Sichuan food.
*Besides going down the street to get something at 7-11 or the like, I’ve not seen any body wearing flip-flops. [/quote]Get out more… especially out of ‘nice’ Taipei neighborhoods. I see ‘tuo-xie’ daily. Along with betel nut spittle and public urination (weekly on that last one, not daily).[quote=“mesheel”]I don’t really understand guys like you? [/quote]I’ll take that as a compliment.[quote=“mesheel”]Why the hell do you come to Taiwan, if you don’t like it at all?[/quote]I was responding to a post about Chinese having less sophistication than Taiwanese. I don’t totally dislike Taiwan.[quote=“mesheel”]Is it just for the money and the chicks or is there actually an other reason?[/quote]Fine job with a multinational corp. Enjoy living abroad. The money’s not bad. The girls are attractive, charming, and not bitchy (unlike a certain Forumosan with a red dress).
Chill.
Taiwanese are generally not less ‘sophisticated’ than Mainlanders. End of story.