When put to the task of choosing curriculum or course books for young learners, what aspects attract you the most to a series?
What does a teacher-friendly lay out mean to you?
How important is illustration?
How about teacher’s manuals?
I’m reviewing a new series and find it quite refreshing. But I would like to hear from children’s classroom teachers about the biggest drawing cards for choosing children’s English texts. Thanks!
[quote=“Alien”]When put to the task of choosing curriculum or course books for young learners, what aspects attract you the most to a series?
What does a teacher-friendly lay out mean to you?
How important is illustration?
How about teacher’s manuals?
I’m reviewing a new series and find it quite refreshing. But I would like to hear from children’s classroom teachers about the biggest drawing cards for choosing children’s English texts. Thanks!:D[/quote]
1.) have separate books for each subject matter. I don’t want to see phonics, conversation, chants, and songs all in one book.
2.) No contractions.
[quote=“Durins Bane”][quote=“Alien”]When put to the task of choosing curriculum or course books for young learners, what aspects attract you the most to a series?
What does a teacher-friendly lay out mean to you?
How important is illustration?
How about teacher’s manuals?
I’m reviewing a new series and find it quite refreshing. But I would like to hear from children’s classroom teachers about the biggest drawing cards for choosing children’s English texts. Thanks!:D[/quote]
1.) have separate books for each subject matter. I don’t want to see phonics, conversation, chants, and songs all in one book.
2.) No contractions.[/quote]
Curious about your opposition to contractions. Could you please explain?
This series incorporates only listening and speaking. Chants are on CD and used in a recycling nature at the end of the unit but not printed in the text. No phonics, no songs.
I want kids to learn the full sentences…they can learn contractions later. It helps them with grammar. Contractions are a shortcut…need to teach them how to take the real path before showing them how to make the path shorter.
I also want books that reply in a full sentence. I can’t this shit:
Do you like pizza?
Yes, I do.
No, I don’t.
I have not found a book yet that I am satisfied with.
A progressive, set-by-step curriculum is nice, especially something that can be used over a period of several years. I use American Start with ENglish currently, and it ain’t perfect, but combined with a phonics program that I’m cobbling together (work-in-progress), an intensive reading program, and lots of supplementary activities, it’s doing the trick.
The thing I emphasize most is reading out loud - especially Dr. Seuss-type books.
If you have something better in terms of basic course curriculum, I’m all ears. :lovestruck:
I’ll just post to get a watching this topic email to remind me to post later as the watch this topic button isn’t working for me.
I have a lot to say about this.
[quote=“Alien”]
Chants are on CD and used in a recycling nature at the end of the unit but not printed in the text. No phonics, no songs.[/quote]
That automatically makes the books shit. Sorry for being so blunt Alien.
[quote=“Durins Bane”][quote=“Alien”]
Chants are on CD and used in a recycling nature at the end of the unit but not printed in the text. No phonics, no songs.[/quote]
That automatically makes the books shit. Sorry for being so blunt Alien.[/quote]
I like bluntness.
But this is a supplementary series, not a full course book series. And I didn’t write this myself. Our company asked this writer to give us a proposal for kind of series aimed at listening and speaking only as it fills a market demand.
I do wish you’d be more specific with your criticism, though Durins. It would be more helpful.
Thanks Maoman. I agree with progression, but in what way? Structural, grammar progression? What makes this progression.
Also, Durins.
Do you like pizza?
Yes, I do. I LOVE pizza!
Would that make a dialogue more acceptable since nobody speaks this way:
Do you like pizza?
Yes, I do like pizza.
Right?
[quote=“Alien”]
I like bluntness.
But this is a supplementary series, not a full course book series. And I didn’t write this myself. Our company asked this writer to give us a proposal for kind of series aimed at listening and speaking only as it fills a market demand.
I do wish you’d be more specific with your criticism, though Durins. It would be more helpful. [/quote]
You need to answer the question, “What do parents want?” I know for a fact they don’t want chants…or songs…or group hugs…or color time. (except for kindys, of course). “What do parents want?” Think about it Alien, the answer is all over this forum. I don’t want to tell you every thing, that would take the fun out of life. 
Right, another conversation book…is it the “same shit, different package” stuff, or has somebody other than one person I know come up with something original? Well, not really original…but expanded on something.
We talked about this a long time ago. The folks that you work for need to think outside the box. It might be very important in this market environment.
Ah…no, technically speaking I am not asking the degree of likeeness. You would also not ask:
Do you like pizza?
Yes, I do. I love pizza!
Can I have a piece?
Because it sounds kinda nasty 
[quote=“Alien”]
Would that make a dialogue more acceptable since nobody speaks this way:
Do you like pizza?
Yes, I do like pizza.
Right?
[/quote]
Ah…no…because throwing that extra “do” in the answer makes it sound kinda European…and we can’t have that.
About contractions, I’m not a teacher but my husband was and my son gets 2 hours of English/week at a Chinese school and I’ve always thought it odd that there are so many contractions, and sometimes, the (local) teachers make up their own 
I’ve always felt like DB that contractions should come later.
I mean this respectfully, DB, because I know you’ve got quite a bit of experience in English in Taiwan, but what if what the parents want is just plain out of date? I’m interested in this topic as a parent whose kid speaks English better than the person who writes his exams (judging from a recent test) and because my husband sells English textbooks.
[quote=“braxtonhicks”]
I mean this respectfully, DB, because I know you’ve got quite a bit of experience in English in Taiwan, but what if what the parents want is just plain out of date? I’m interested in this topic as a parent whose kid speaks English better than the person who writes his exams (judging from a recent test) and because my husband sells English textbooks.[/quote]
Good question…think of parents as customers. They are paying the money so we have togive them what they want.
I find your opposition to contractions odd. Contractions are integral to spoken English. Leaving them out is artificial, and suggests that you are teaching children to recite from memory (in the sense that they are visualizing written sentence and then reading them) rather than to speak.
I’m honestly just curious here. Is DB’s opposition to contractions supported by ELT pedagogy? Or is this an example of simply going with what works in a classroom in Taiwan? If I were teaching, I’d certainly go with what works, but I would be curious to know what researchers thing.
There is a time and place for everything and I believe that young children should first learn why contractions are what they are. Plus it reinforces grammar and by making them say the whole sentence you are getting them to speak more. Kids speaking English equals money in my pocket. And no, it doesn’t suggest reciting from memory…it doesn’t suggest anything else that what it actually is…getting kids to speak.
[quote=“Feiren”]
I’m honestly just curious here. Is DB’s opposition to contractions supported by ELT pedagogy? Or is this an example of simply going with what works in a classroom in Taiwan? If I were teaching, I’d certainly go with what works, but I would be curious to know what researchers thing.[/quote]
Feiren, with all due respect, I have no respect for ELT pedagogy. How many of them spend time in the trenches? It’s like Chachi in the thread about degrees…so many degrees but what does that tell you? Too much time thinking theory when practice is where it is at. It is important to remember that we do not only teach English, we must also market it.
Besides, the only ELT expert in my world is me.
If what the parent’s want is just plain out of date you can only slowly bring change. Any radical changes will not be welcomed and you would find yourself without students. I know, I tried that long ago.
No phonics = not a good system. A good phonics system can make everything else you do so much easier.
In a phonics system I look for something that covers everything in a series of books, not just one big book. It must have a workbook for homework and a CD, the student must listen to the CD to do the homework. I make my homework book impossible to do without the CD.
No mess in the book. It should be clear, clean, and easy to follow.
For an English system.
It should cover every aspect of English, reading, writing, listening, speaking, in a progressive manner. Personally I use a system where the English (prep. for reading and writing) is one book and conversation is another book. I wish that the system I use came with a phonics book but it doesn’t, so I have made stuff up myself. Where the CD or books were lacking I did it myself and filled in the gaps. Filling in the gaps takes time and I wouldn’t want to do that often.
A system should seamlessly link over several years and as it grows it should expand on what was taught previously and also review the earlier material. How many times have I seen students get to book 3 in a series only to have forgotten book 1.
The CD should be interesting enough not to put the children to sleep. The CD’s I did myself have the children wanting to listen but the original CD had them falling asleep.
A system should also work well with parents. They should understand what the children are doing for homework or in class. Good CD’s and workbooks will answer many of the questions that parents have. You should never have parents needing to call your school asking how to say the phonetic combinations from your lessons, that is what the CD is for.
Songs are useful but not at the expense of actual learning - ok, I know kids like it, but if that is all you do the parents won’t keep paying for their kids to study. If you have songs they should compliment the themes of the book.
Conversation is also key.
[quote=“Feiren”]I find your opposition to contractions odd. Contractions are integral to spoken English. Leaving them out is artificial, and suggests that you are teaching children to recite from memory (in the sense that they are visualizing written sentence and then reading them) rather than to speak.
[/quote]
True. I don’t think it’s (it is) either / or , it is both. If you are using a complete system you can introduce aspects of English at the correct time. I will not allow children to read “It is” if the text supplied is “it’s”. The kids keep reading “it’s” as “it is” and for the most part I try to correct it because it becomes a habit later on.
Ha! Fat chance! Hahahahahahahahaha
Which is exactly WHY distance learning Masters degrees in Tesol are the way to go. It’s ‘trench and theory’ comingled in most cases. Instead of trickle down, it’s trickle up to academia. That’s the way it should be.
But interestingly enough, MOST of us in materials aren’t in the trenches any longer. Most of us have been in the trenches in he past for a number of years, but most of us have no inclination to go back into them again. We like cubicles and theory NOW. We like marketing studies. We like to know what the teachers (and parents) want, not GUESS what they want. We learn this through sales figures. Also, most publishers like to be safe.
Most publishers in Taiwan won’t take risks and MOST publishers here are about 25 years behind the theories anyway because it took that long for those theories to reach the teachers whom are MOSTLY Taiwanese, not foreigners with CELTAS and Masters degrees and/or a gazillion years of practice.
They’re the ones who don’t feel safe going into unknown territory or straying from grammar progression. They’ll not touch a full-on lexical syllabus for young learners, although I bet a million NT that once we see it in the international market (one that’s full of its own constraints to overcome) it will hit locally after 30 years by which time none of us here will give a damn about spreading the international lingua franca.
It’s all very much a visious circle.
Do you like pizza?
Only if it’s Alleycat’s pizza.
[quote=“Bassman”]If what the parent’s want is just plain out of date you can only slowly bring change. Any radical changes will not be welcomed and you would find yourself without students. I know, I tried that long ago.
No phonics = not a good system. A good phonics system can make everything else you do so much easier.
In a phonics system I look for something that covers everything in a series of books, not just one big book. It must have a workbook for homework and a CD, the student must listen to the CD to do the homework. I make my homework book impossible to do without the CD.
No mess in the book. It should be clear, clean, and easy to follow.
For an English system.
It should cover every aspect of English, reading, writing, listening, speaking, in a progressive manner. Personally I use a system where the English (prep. for reading and writing) is one book and conversation is another book. I wish that the system I use came with a phonics book but it doesn’t, so I have made stuff up myself. Where the CD or books were lacking I did it myself and filled in the gaps. Filling in the gaps takes time and I wouldn’t want to do that often.
A system should seamlessly link over several years and as it grows it should expand on what was taught previously and also review the earlier material. How many times have I seen students get to book 3 in a series only to have forgotten book 1.
The CD should be interesting enough not to put the children to sleep. The CD’s I did myself have the children wanting to listen but the original CD had them falling asleep.
A system should also work well with parents. They should understand what the children are doing for homework or in class. Good CD’s and workbooks will answer many of the questions that parents have. You should never have parents needing to call your school asking how to say the phonetic combinations from your lessons, that is what the CD is for.
Songs are useful but not at the expense of actual learning - ok, I know kids like it, but if that is all you do the parents won’t keep paying for their kids to study. If you have songs they should compliment the themes of the book.
Conversation is also key.[/quote]
You show a lot of insight, Bassman. Especially what you say about parents. But you’re talking buxibans, right? The parents have a different influence in the school system. That’s all about “My kid needs to pass this test so conversation be damned, make them pass!”
As for a full on curriculum, I suppose component books are the way to go. If you like one series for listening and speaking, another for writing, another for reading, another for grammar, another for phonics, then so be it. It’s piecemeal. Teachers and administrators shouldn’t be so lazy by choosing one series to fit their needs broadly. They should get out there and find what works for them even if that means extra legwork like visits to publishers sessions, extensive research and sharing with others.
You might want to start a bunch of seperate threads about this here. Which books are best for reading? Which ones do you find good for Listening? Phonics? Grammar?
And that way you teachers can learn from each other rather than struggling on your own.
But remember that publishers tend to DUMB DOWN every bloody thing they get their hands on, so unless you’re publishing works on your own or for a buxiban, you’ll only ever get the watered down stuff that likely goes almost completely against the author’s original aims. 
I’ll give you a little more insight into why conversation is very important where I live. G.E.P.T, with the current pass the test mentality the kids can all pass the first part of the first G.E.P.T test, but fail the second part - spoken. That is why parents are sending their kids to my buxiban. You have to be able to give the kids the skills they need to pass “THE TEST”.
Picture interpretation is another big stumbling block for most buxibans.
Ok, kindy - The basic skills that I have talked about need to be developed their too. A good system will hook the kids in kindergarten and keep them coming back long after they have left your kindergarten and see them being fed into your buxiban, that is, if you have one. This is a simple reason why our buxiban could be successful in a short time, well, one of the reasons.
Trust me on this. This GEPT will be obsolete in like 3 years max. Taiwan first of all, keeps changing policies in regards to education, and second of all, since this test is so ‘localized’ the flaws in it are inherent.
It’s already hit its peak and is beginning to slide down into the nether regions here in Taipei, and where you are, it’s not far behind. Call it one of those ‘trends’ they love so much in Taiwan!
As for buxibans and kindies, well, many in the MOE are anti-kindy because the local primary and middle school teachers are the ones faced with a plethora of mixed levels in their classes, so they’re the ones with the clout in the MOE. The outcome: they will disrupt “buxibanism” as it pisses them off! 