You sought forgiveness for that? You mean its not a religious duty?
Michael
Actually, I can’t remember ever having done that. Usually when I post an article, it’s because I think it’s a good article or contains important information that more people ought to know.
[quote][url=http://www.sptimes.com/2004/11/06/Opinion/Christian_values_don_.shtml]Christian values don’t fit with Democratic Party
Published November 6, 2004
I am a working man. At no time in my life have I ever earned more than $27,000 in a year, and mostly I have gotten by on less than that. I pay a good deal of my modest income for health insurance and buying gas to get to and from work. I would personally benefit from an affordable government-backed health care policy and from lower gas prices brought about by government mandated increases in fuel efficiency.
However, I cannot vote the straight Democratic ticket anymore because above all, I am a Christian.
The new “Ivy League” dominated Democratic Party no longer represents my interests because the Democrats have chosen to adopt “fringe” social policies that run counter to the most basic tenets of the Christian religion.
What we saw in this election is that if asked to make a choice between the heart and the head, Christians will always choose the heart. No believer should ever be forced to make this choice! If the Democrats cannot support a social policy that is in harmony with Christian values, then they ought to abandon all social policy and go back to representing solely the economic interest of working people.
The Republican Party - the party by and for the ultra-rich - sure does not represent my economic interests. Unfortunately, it is the only party that my faith will allow me to support[/url].[/quote]
I wanted to respond to this observation of yours, Redandy. I find it interesting how adeptly the Republican Party has associated itself/branded itself as the party of morality, defender of the faith and so on. As you and others have noted, neither party has a monoply on religion or morality. Many in both parties are people of faith, are Christians and espouse Christian values. However, the Republicans have come up with a few very politically devisive moral issues, abortion and gay marriage, and used this to their advantage. Folks whose parents were diehard Democrats are now diehard Republicans. Why? Why do people, working people, the non-rich, base their vote on social policy rather than on their economic interests? That baffles me. Why are issues like a living wage, basic health care, and government reform not seen as moral issues? Surely they are. The Bible speaks to charity, and taking care of the poor and vulnerable extensively. This is an interesting question, I think. Why this shift? Is the average American too stupid to grasp modern economics concepts or too ignorant to be conversant in Foreign/World Affairs? The Democratic Party has definitely dropped the ball on this. They have failed to object to Republicans co-opting the title of the “Values/Morals” Party, and failed to make a case for the morals they build their platform and philosophy upon - championing the interests of the disenfranchised, the masses, the working folks and so on. They have allowed the Republicans to label them as elitist - an absurd assertion given the party’s history.
The conceptualguerilla.com talks about this phenomenon extensively in his classic blog, America’s culture war. Here’s a snippet:
[quote]Exactly how has the far right managed to advance a reactionary agenda, the public would surely reject on its merits?
The answer is that the far right doesn’t talk about its policies. Instead, they focus on things like “values” and “culture”, convincing average voters that progressives are at least vaguely “alien” in their politics. The power of this kind of appeal can be tremendous – especially when the other side, us, fail to even understand what it is and how it works.
The late Daniel Patrick Moynihan understood it. He said that the great insight of conservatives is that culture is more important than politics. Many progressives fail to understand the power of culture and symbolism in politics…[/quote]
[quote][url=http://www.sptimes.com/2004/11/06/Opinion/Christian_values_don_.shtml]Christian values don’t fit with Democratic Party
Published November 6, 2004
I am a working man. At no time in my life have I ever earned more than $27,000 in a year, and mostly I have gotten by on less than that. I pay a good deal of my modest income for health insurance and buying gas to get to and from work. I would personally benefit from an affordable government-backed health care policy and from lower gas prices brought about by government mandated increases in fuel efficiency.
However, I cannot vote the straight Democratic ticket anymore because above all, I am a Christian.
The new “Ivy League” dominated Democratic Party no longer represents my interests because the Democrats have chosen to adopt “fringe” social policies that run counter to the most basic tenets of the Christian religion.
What we saw in this election is that if asked to make a choice between the heart and the head, Christians will always choose the heart. No believer should ever be forced to make this choice! If the Democrats cannot support a social policy that is in harmony with Christian values, then they ought to abandon all social policy and go back to representing solely the economic interest of working people.
The Republican Party - the party by and for the ultra-rich - sure does not represent my economic interests. Unfortunately, it is the only party that my faith will allow me to support[/url].[/quote]
I agree entirely with these sentiments. I would never be able to vote Democratic because I believe the values of the Democratic Party are at their essence amoral. Even it’s so-called commitment to economic human rights is sectarian and divisive rather than universal.
As far as the Republican Party goes, the writer couldn’t have said it better: "The Republican Party - the party by and for the ultra-rich - sure does not etc. "
[quote]The Republican Party - the party by and for the ultra-rich - sure does not represent my economic interests.[/quote]A tired canard that has gained its veracity solely by repetition.
Legitimate demographics to support it? Anyone?
added:
Chart at bottom of page is 1st I came across. It shows a comparison of income and party affiliation. Reps do outnumber Dems in the higher income brackets - but this is a rather loose survey. Income tops out at US$75k and up, not really very high.
people-press.org/commentary/disp … lysisID=95
Playing Follow the Money?
Dems look pretty strong here:
opensecrets.org/orgs/index.asp
For 2005 - 2006, Reps top except in Senate Committee monies:
opensecrets.org/parties/index.asp
When it comes to available cash on hand the Dems are the big money:
opensecrets.org/parties/inde … 006&type=C
Net worth as of 2005:
Dick Cheney only comes in at 18th -
opensecrets.org/pfds/overview.asp
[quote=“TainanCowboy”][quote]The Republican Party - the party by and for the ultra-rich - sure does not represent my economic interests.[/quote]A tire canard that has gained its veracity solely by repetition.
Legitimate demographics to support it? Anyone?[/quote]
I am always thoroughly entertained by ivy-league dilettantes and other members of the Eastern establishment railing against the Republican Party as being the party of the ultra rich.
I mean John F. Kerry 
was practically a pauper wasn’t he? And who has the biggest home in North Carolina? John Edwards. Or what about Al Gore flying in his private jet around the world going to his screenings?
is it the christians in america who have drifted too far away from the tenets of Christianity to see themselves in the democrats. or is it the other way around: the democrats have drifted so far from the central tenets of christianity that christians cannot vote for them? i think the former: there are planty of christian who vote democrat, just none of them fire-and-brimstone, god’ll strike ye down kind of cranks.
what happened to the christian ideals of tolerance, inclsuion, forgiveness, reaching out to those who are less fortunate than yourself?
they don’t seem to be upheld by the current directions of american fundamentalist teachings and they certainly are not upheld by the GOP, so maybe those two camps are best suited to each other now, even tho neither is particularly christian… “your enemy is mine enemy”.
maybe it takes an atheist to tell the falwell fakers that they actually have no clothes on.
IT’s not the having money that’s ever bothered me. That politicians basically have to be rich seems a given in this day and age.
It’s their policies vis-a-vis the environment, oil company ties, big government giveaways and tax breaks to those who don’t need it and the spending reductions on those who do that makes most of us consider the Republicans the government not only BY but most importantly FOR the rich.
Check out the blog in my recent thread Bush’s budget: bad capitalism for more evidence in this regard.
And to quote GWB on the subject:
Urodacus - couldn’t agree more.
Vay - thanks for being so articulate on this topic.
Bodo
I consider Jimmy Carter – rather than Jerry Falwell – the closest thing there is to a true Christian in public life today so examining his position within the Democratic Party gives a truer picture of the relationship between Christians and the Democratic Party:
"Jimmy Carter Condemns Abortion, Chastises Democratic Party
Former President Jimmy Carter, who has long embraced the liberal political agenda, and seemed to have become more liberal as time wore on, yesterday condemned all abortions and chastised the Democratic Party for its intolerance of candidates and nominees who oppose abortion.
In a report filed by the Washington Times, during an interview with reporters, Mr. Carter was quoted as saying, “I never have felt that any abortion should be committed – I think each abortion is the result of a series of errors…These things impact other issues on which [Mr. Bush] and I basically agree…I’ve never been convinced, if you let me inject my Christianity into it, that Jesus Christ would approve abortion.”
. . . he . . .declared that the best treatment he has received since leaving the Oval Office was from the first President Bush, and the second-best treatment he got was during the Reagan administration, especially from Secretary of State George P. Shultz. The worst treatment he’s received, the former president said, was from President Clinton. . . ."
Good job Spook! Anything with Carter!
This is your idea of ‘habitats for humanity’, Fred:
Versus Jimmy Carter’s idea:
So it’s clear which side of the moral divide you’re on.
fredsmith said :
[quote]…Guinea worm, a plague so ancient that it is found in Egyptian mummies and is thought to be the “fiery serpent” described in the Old Testament as torturing the Israelites in the desert.
For untold generations here, yardlong, spaghetti-thin worms erupted from the legs or feet — or even eye sockets — of victims, forcing their way out by exuding acid under the skin until it bubbled and burst. The searing pain drove them to plunge the blisters into the nearest pool of water, whereupon the worm would squirt out a milky cloud of larvae, starting the cycle anew.
“The pain is like if you stab somebody,” said Hyacinth Igelle, a farmer with a worm coming out of a hand so swollen and tender that he could not hold a hoe. He indicated how the pain moved slowly up his arm. “It is like fire — it comes late, but you feel it even unto your heart.”
Now, thanks to a relentless 20-year campaign led by former President Jimmy Carter, Guinea worm is poised to become the first disease since smallpox to be pushed into oblivion. Fewer than 12,000 cases were found last year, down from 3 million in 1986.
Mr. Carter persuaded world leaders, philanthropists and companies to care about an obscure and revolting disease and help him fight it. His foundation mobilized volunteers in tens of thousands of villages to treat the drinking water the worms live in.[/quote]
see this video barackobama.com/issues/faith/ of a barack obama speech on reconciling faith and politics (ie politics for some democrats who are squeamish about mixing church and state and some republicans who believe that you can’t be a moral person unless you believe in God, and a couple of other subgroups i forgot about). i’m a compassionate atheist who believes in good and evil and i love this speech. well, i’m not totally an atheist. i’m more of a grandmother-ancestor-worshiper.
There’s a pretty good 30minute radio interview with hedges at www.democracynow.org , posted last week, should be on their front page.
later, aaron
[quote=“MikeN”]fredsmith said :
[quote]…Guinea worm, a plague so ancient that it is found in Egyptian mummies and is thought to be the “fiery serpent” described in the Old Testament as torturing the Israelites in the desert.
For untold generations here, yardlong, spaghetti-thin worms erupted from the legs or feet — or even eye sockets — of victims, forcing their way out by exuding acid under the skin until it bubbled and burst. The searing pain drove them to plunge the blisters into the nearest pool of water, whereupon the worm would squirt out a milky cloud of larvae, starting the cycle anew.
“The pain is like if you stab somebody,” said Hyacinth Igelle, a farmer with a worm coming out of a hand so swollen and tender that he could not hold a hoe. He indicated how the pain moved slowly up his arm. “It is like fire — it comes late, but you feel it even unto your heart.”
Now, thanks to a relentless 20-year campaign led by former President Jimmy Carter, Guinea worm is poised to become the first disease since smallpox to be pushed into oblivion. Fewer than 12,000 cases were found last year, down from 3 million in 1986.
Mr. Carter persuaded world leaders, philanthropists and companies to care about an obscure and revolting disease and help him fight it. His foundation mobilized volunteers in tens of thousands of villages to treat the drinking water the worms live in.[/quote][/quote]
Cool stuff. Guess Carter was making up for his failed presidency. Still…got to give credit where was is due.