[quote=“Chris”]
The are taking advantage of human suffering to spread their religion.[/quote]
Uhmmmmmm…Chris, if humans didn’t suffer, there would be no reason for either religion or philiosophy, now would there?
[quote=“Comrade Stalin”][quote=“Chris”]
The are taking advantage of human suffering to spread their religion.[/quote]
Uhmmmmmm…Chris, if humans didn’t suffer, there would be no reason for either religion or philiosophy, now would there?[/quote]
In a way, that’s a kind of an oblique refutation of religion!
This is a tough one for me because my sister and her husband are both missionaries and will be in Indonesia providing
[quote=“Chris”][quote=“Comrade Stalin”][quote=“Chris”]
The are taking advantage of human suffering to spread their religion.[/quote]
Uhmmmmmm…Chris, if humans didn’t suffer, there would be no reason for either religion or philiosophy, now would there?[/quote]
In a way, that’s a kind of an oblique refutation of religion![/quote]
Chris, think very carefully back to your History 101 class where the teacher talked about the spread and rise of Christianity in the Roman Empire. Who did it spread among first? Slaves. In America, the civil rights movement was based where? In the churches. Why? Because the churches offered Hope.
Religion offers solace to people who are suffering. Sorry you seem to be unable to see this.
[quote=“Comrade Stalin”][quote=“Chris”][quote=“Comrade Stalin”][quote=“Chris”]
The are taking advantage of human suffering to spread their religion.[/quote]
Uhmmmmmm…Chris, if humans didn’t suffer, there would be no reason for either religion or philiosophy, now would there?[/quote]
In a way, that’s a kind of an oblique refutation of religion![/quote]
Chris, think very carefully back to your History 101 class where the teacher talked about the spread and rise of Christianity in the Roman Empire. Who did it spread among first? Slaves. In America, the civil rights movement was based where? In the churches. Why? Because the churches offered Hope.
Religion offers solace to people who are suffering. Sorry you seem to be unable to see this.[/quote]
Don’t they already have religion?
[quote=“Danimal”]
Don’t they already have religion?[/quote]
Maybe it doesn’t offer what they need at that time. When I was in college I had friends become Buddhists, Taoists, Children of God, Moonies, warlocks, you name it. I knew several other who, instead, committed suicde or switched to drugs. At that time in their lifes something was missing and they needed to fill it. Simply because you don’t believe or feel that you don’t doesn’t mean others feel the same.
[quote=“Comrade Stalin”][quote=“Danimal”]
Don’t they already have religion?[/quote]
Maybe it doesn’t offer what they need at that time. When I was in college I had friends become Buddhists, Taoists, Children of God, Moonies, warlocks, you name it. I knew several other who, instead, committed suicde or switched to drugs. At that time in their lifes something was missing and they needed to fill it. Simply because you don’t believe or feel that you don’t doesn’t mean others feel the same.[/quote]
Well, I could spend hours detailing the ways in which religion has offered nothing but despair, but for the sake of argument, I won’t dispute any of this…
What I disagree with is the idea that it
[quote=“Danimal”] I don
I don’t see the need for the two to be connected in such a way as to make that choice necessary.
i understand but that is the reality of the situation. let me preface further comments by noting that i am typing this comfortably in my living room far removed from any disaster zones where i might be actually doing something to help people in need. those that are deserve some respect in my book, even if they have their own goal, which in my opinion in the great majority of cases amounts to no more than a desire to give spiritual help rather than any personal benefit that will be gained. personally if i am given a choice between real help for me and my family in a disaster and having to listen to some religious talk, and the alternative, it will not be a difficult choice.
i honestly think anyone who thinks converting someone from one honest religion to another will help them is nuts, but in the balance the giving of real physical help far outweighs this ideosyncracy.
I agree that those offering aid or help in any way, shape, or form deserve credit, but that doesn’t absolve them from criticism of their methods or motives.
which methods and motives do you mean? there are a lot of possibilites there and i would criticize some of them too.
[quote=“Danimal”]What I
[quote=“Comrade Stalin”][quote=“Danimal”]What I
[quote=“Danimal”]
But I’m not talking about the simple act of spreading your beliefs to people who are suffering. There’s nothing interesting or controversial about that. I’m talking about spreading your beliefs to suffering people because their need makes them more suseptible to conversion.
Do you see a problem with that?[/quote]
??? Whatever. No, I see no problem at all. Why do you? Could it simply be a case of anti-religious bigotry?
[quote=“Comrade Stalin”][quote=“Danimal”]
But I’m not talking about the simple act of spreading your beliefs to people who are suffering. There’s nothing interesting or controversial about that. I’m talking about spreading your beliefs to suffering people because their need makes them more suseptible to conversion.
Do you see a problem with that?[/quote]
??? Whatever. No, I see no problem at all. Why do you? Could it simply be a case of anti-religious bigotry?[/quote]
I already told you I have a problem with it.
[quote=“Danimal”]
But I’m not talking about the simple act of spreading your beliefs to people who are suffering. There’s nothing interesting or controversial about that. I’m talking about spreading your beliefs to suffering people because their need makes them more suseptible to conversion.
Do you see a problem with that?[/quote]
I would keep in mind that missionaries see the potential conversion as a positive end in itself for the one converted.
I don’t think being converted to another religion can be said to hurt anyone. You make your own choices on such matters in the end.
If a missionary were gaining or intended to gain some kind of personal benefit through the conversion, i would agree with you more, but in the end the help given might even outweigh that. it would depend.
But what kind of choices can we expect people to make when they
Far and away the majority of aid providers are religous based organizations. Each one believes in providing aid because it is God’s work and because when they provide the assistance the recipiants will see God’s work in action and perhaps find God in there lives too as a result.
That goes for every organization be it, Quaker, Catholic, Seventh Day Adventist, Buddhist or what have you. It’s what happens. That doesn’t mean the aid is delivered in the loaves and fishes style. Usually the delivery is very sophisticated and meaningful.
If you find yourselves quibbiling about it then you should try to broaden your world view a little, because that is the reality.
I was raised Catholic but I’ve let go way beyond the status of lapsed. However, I’ve seen aid being delivered and participated in delivery, and I have to say I made many friends and had a lot of respect for people of all religions who were prepared to work the coal face of a disaster. I also met many people like myself who worked inside some of these religous organizations. These people weren’t particularily religous themselves. The organization simply provided a conduit for them to express their humanity.
More interesting in my book, are the professional aid workers. These people work for some of the larger NGO’s or semigovernment organizations like the International Migration Organization, UNHCR, or International Labor Orgainzation. They are usually paid well in western salaries and provide much of the logistical services in disasters. They are an essential part of any aid effort, but they also eat up the dollars and cents big time, where as the religous organizations and smaller NGO’s tend to be a lot more efficent in terms of delivery because of volunteerism.
Thanks, Fox. Excellent post.