Christopher Hitchens on why George Bush deserves respect

I go with the pendulum theory.
It swings left with LBJ. (We’re giving all our money to lazy poor people!)
It swings right with Nixon. (It’s time for the silent majority to stand up.)
It swings left with Carter. (What a nice guy.)
It swings back to the right. (Poor people like to sleep in boxes. Trees are bad for the air quality.)
It swings left. (BJs in the whitehouse?)
It swings back to the right. (Blood. Cool. It’s just like a John Wayne movie.)

That makes for a funny theory, but Nixon was a big-government socialist (the only Prez to institute wage and price controls, founder of affirmative action, expander of the welfare state) and Clinton was in practice a moderate Republican (NAFTA, WTO, slashed the deficit, dropped more bombs over Iraq than the entirety used in Gulf War I).

(back to topic)

To quote the original ridiculous myths terminator cowboy:
…the information he presents does tend to be supported by facts.
Not talking about Bush, then?

Bush’s speech impediment should not obscure the sad truth. The reason why he is so universally reviled, but particularly in Britain by politicians on all sides as well as the man on the street, is that his mind-set blacks out any possibility for rational argument. Coming from the top dog, it makes things particularly frustrating and indeed worrying, perhaps more so for those who should be in a position to try and reason with him, i.e. not Chirac or Shroeder, who just have a good laugh, but the Brits and the Democrats in the U.S.

The man is impervious to logic and to facts. Indeed, he loathes them. Obviously, he is not entirely stupid but he is definitely missing an essential layer of understanding, very much the way fundamentalists of all hues do. Grumpy old men are often a bit like this, too, and it’s impossible to argue with them. Now, that sure gives him a broad base in the electorate.

The shame of the Republican Party is that it proved ready to endorse such a man merely to win the Presidency. Same thing for that fringe of the Republican electorate who has always known the score but have persisted in toeing the partisan red line.

Bush clearly understands very little of what is going on in the world. He is probably dimly aware of this but still does not refrain from putting the big U.S. boot in it based on unsubstantiated claims and then on silly repetition of the same, up until the last moment with “Saddam attacked us” in the first presidential debate. Even his reaction to Kerry after this blunder shows how feeble-minded the poor guy is.

Well, the good news is that his lies are largely mitigated by his stupidity.

Still, Bush is a disgrace for civilised people, for democracies, and in particular for the English world.

In terms of good governance, you guys are lucky that there’s still such a thing as an administration, so that everyday necessities are taken care of. Long term consequences may prove more difficult to unravel and to forgive, though.

EB

Yeah, me too.

[quote=“Richardm”]It swings left …
It swings right … (repeat)
It swings back to the right. [/quote]

Yeah, but now the GOP figures it’s found a way to modify the mechanism so that ‘it swings left’ is no longer possible.

And stupidity, you forgot that. Hubris, too; surely we’ve still got that boot coming?

Au Contraire Speaker Pigeon

I am in Europe the continent that hates us right now and no one except the elite newspaper reporters and professors and such hate Bush. Most people on the street understand what is going on and there is certainly no such excessive hatred on their part. Remember that much of Europe still realizes where their security is best protected. If you want to ask anyone in Italy who they revile most, look to your own countrymen and especially Chirac. Italy is still fighting in Iraq and they have a lot of doubts about French manhood these days haha. So take it with a grain of salt.

Also, given Nixon and his very leftwing price controls and such please do not suggest that he was somehow representative of a rightist position. The pendelum went farthest left and to our nullpunkt under Carter. Since then we are merely returning to normal and thank God for that. Four more years of Carter and we would be France now.

Here is a quote that is germane to the topic.

[quote=“Henry Louis Mencken”]The larger the mob, the harder the test. In small areas, before small electorates, a first-rate man occasionally fights his way through, carrying even the mob with him by force of his personality. But when the field is nationwide, and the fight must be waged chiefly at second and third hand, and the force of personality cannot so readily make itself felt, then all the odds are on the man who is, intrinsically, the most devious and mediocre

You are all so happily befuddling the issues here.

Bland campaigning does not mean one is stupid. Bland campaigning is a sad feature of so-called mature democracies, nothing specific to the U.S., unfortunately.

Still, the main point is that Bush was re-elected, showing that it was possible to make a public display of stupidity during four years and still win the presidential election. Others will merrily follow in his footsteps.

Second, the mandate thing clearly was directed at his own party, in particular in the senate, where he can expect to meet with some degree of republican foot-dragging one some social issues.
Third, Bush has clearly been distracted by 9/11 – obviously in his case I can’t use the phrase “put out of his wit”. Now though, he is going to try and focus on internal issues, without even having to worry about being re-elected.

Do Republicans know what they’ve bargained for?

EB

I know what I bargained for with this republican president and I had better get it. A total war on terrorism and please no smarmy smart ass remarks about how terrorism is an abstract concept. I want total war on Islamofascism and I expect to get it. We will win this fight and the world will be better off because of it.

Speaker Pigeon: You most definitely have to be a Parisian. There simply is no way that you could live anywhere else in France and be this way. I would imagine that you are getting some sort of socialism degree or some such thing no doubt very academic focusing on oh say womens roles during the Middle Ages in Flanders. Where do you live? 12th arrondisement? 13th?

The FRED quote: “You most definitely have to be a Parisian”

No need even to be French, I say. My views are not different from that of many Americans, admittedly in the smart minority, but that’s Ok with me.

You make such outlandish claims that you would be cruelly laughed at in London and other less Parisian places, worldwide, including in Canada, Australia and, yes, in America. I would worry if I were you. Even Rumsfeld would laugh at you.

Clearly, you don’t even realise what you are actually saying. Indeed, often it does not make any sense. Except for the nastiness factor.

Are you preparing to stand as the next dumber-than-Bush presidential candidate?

Hmmm, sweet.

EB

speak pigeon, i have news for you, american presidents are never smart. i’m having serious trouble trying to figure out the last one. if the best you can do to insult bush is to say he’s stupid that is pretty sad and basically just shows how little, nothing in fact, you really have to say.

[quote=“fred smith”]I know what I bargained for with this republican president and I had better get it. A total war on terrorism and please no smarmy smart ass remarks about how terrorism is an abstract concept. I want total war on Islamofascism and I expect to get it. We will win this fight and the world will be better off because of it.
[/quote]

Yes, I hope he makes war on terrorists too. But what you might get instead is a total war on abortion, a war on drugs (when will Bush turn himself in and start serving his sentence?), a war on gay marriage, a war on taxes (for the rich), and a war on the environment (global warming, remember?).

That will be nice if we win the war on terrorism. Unfortunately, everything else is turning to shit.

American presidents are never smart? Let’s see, Thomas Jefferson (possibly the only bonafide genius to perform as head of state), Lincoln, both of the Roosevelts, Nixon and Clinton (hate them if you will, and I do hate Tricky Dick, but their brains are well documented, as even their enemies grudgingly admit), Herbert Hoover (yes, believe it or not, he was called the boy wonder; too bad his main talent was in engineering, not statesmanship), Woodrow Wilson (too smart and idealistic for his own good), Eisenhower (played dumb and interested more in golf than running the country but according to inside accounts was actually the opposite of his public persona, very smart and hard-working; dummies didn’t win WWII)…

On the other hand…Grant (drunk the whole time), Harding, Taft, Reagan, Jackson (godfather of the Ignorant Redneck style of American culture), JFK (male bimbo)…

Interesting that Bush is blamed for being against gay marriage when gays have more rights now than they did under Clinton. Interesting that all this talk about global warming still have some big holes. Interesting that Bush is blamed despite the fact Clinton knew that the Senate would never ratify Kyoto and those nations that have ratified it like France are not even making a pretense of living up to their legally binding commitments. Sort of like the Euro and financial stability agreement. Inconvenient, who cares? Get off the Bush bashing. The environment is not a disaster and is certainly better than during the 1970s 1980s and 1990s. There is no war on drugs now that is any different from the ones of the past 30 years. Why worry just because Bush is president and why didn’t Clinton do anything different? The world is not ending so quit the hyperventilating.

P.S. speaker pigeon is definitely Parisian from the 12th arrondisement and a sociology major to boot. Right? Haha so typical.

[quote=“mod lang”]American presidents are never smart? Let’s see, Thomas Jefferson (possibly the only bonafide genius to perform as head of state), Lincoln, both of the Roosevelts, Nixon and Clinton (hate them if you will, and I do hate Tricky Dick, but their brains are well documented, as even their enemies grudgingly admit), Herbert Hoover (yes, believe it or not, he was called the boy wonder; too bad his main talent was in engineering, not statesmanship), Woodrow Wilson (too smart and idealistic for his own good), Eisenhower (played dumb and interested more in golf than running the country but according to inside accounts was actually the opposite of his public persona, very smart and hard-working; dummies didn’t win WWII)…
[/quote]

Clinton… HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Bubba? Oh yeah a real genius.
A better case with Nixon, although he had a funny way of showing it.
Eisenhower maybe, but if dummies don’t win ww2 then dummies don’t get to be president of the us either.

These are iffy, after that we’re going WAY back. Some might even argue about jefferson :slight_smile:

Seriously none of these guys were dummies, and that goes for bush too, but it seems we don’t exactly shoot for mensa material in our presidents, or maybe those guys are too smart to get mixed up in that.

TAMPO GAIN, the topic is about Bush “deserving respect”. You get what you’re asking for.
What do you want to say about such a nutty topic?
Bush is real stupid! Oh no, he’s not!
Hmmm, interesting, isn’t?
Look at all the posts in the thread and tell us what is real news?
That being said, why not have fun? Bush is stupid but he’s also funny. Enjoy.
Many in the Conservative Party in Britain don’t believe that most U.S. presidents were as stupid as Bush. These people are naturally quite nasty and I’m confident they use, in the privacy of their cottages, more damaging insults than I ever will.

TAMPO a-GAIN: “we don’t exactly shoot for mensa material in our presidents”
Mensa people would make good presidents?
Now, was it all you had to say on the subject? Everybody’s impressed.

MOD LANG : JFK (male bimbo)…
Well, he did steer America through the Cuban missile crisis in the face of bad advice from his own military. Not bad, I say. Are you jealous of seductive males?

And the crunchy FRED quote: “P.S. speaker pigeon is definitely Parisian from the 12th arrondisement and a sociology major to boot. Right? Haha so typical.”

You seem to be getting hysterical, Dear. Watch this blood pressure, I say.
And what’s so special about the 12th arrondissement anyway?

EB

[quote=“fred smith”]Au Contraire Speaker Pigeon

I am in Europe the continent that hates us right now and no one except the elite newspaper reporters and professors and such hate Bush. [/quote]

Ha ha ha ha! Such a wild generalisation is so far wide of the mark that it is not funny. Maybe it’s just your friends who don’t hate Bush? Lot’s of “people on the street” dislike him and think he’s an idiot.
I withdraw my ha ha’s.
David

Sorry David is right. I should have phrased that the media view that Bush hatred is unanimous in Europe is wrong. Definitely there are people here who hate Bush and oh about the same percentage as do in the US. Europe and the US are therefore not that different. Of course those who hate Bush are wrong but then haha

Yep. Yep. What? Hitchens, Horowitz…same sentence? Are you talking about Horowitz, as in the Frontpage right-wing nutbar partisan dipshit? Chomsky’s polar opposite?

Does not compute.[/quote]

An interesting article about Hitchens by Horowitz

hnn.us/articles/893.html

Chewy,
Good article. Thanks for the post.