Chu-Lin Elementary School

clse.tpc.edu.tw/page98/Nativ … anted2.htm

Wow, a Forumosa thread has irritated the Section Chief of an Elementary School. :laughing:
Be afraid, be very afraid. :laughing:

That picture is the junior/senior high school, not the elementary school.

That position doesn’t look so good. I wonder what the pay is like.

I work at Chu-Lin Elementary School. I have worked here for six years. Another coworker has worked here for nine years and another for four years. That should say a lot.

I am probably the coworker that Cipos thinks should be deported. I was never his supervisor or boss. I will not use this page to discuss his performance, but I think it is obvious that the school was not happy with his work. I can only say that he was very difficult to work with and, just like this attack, unprofessional. My other coworkers and I did not agree with his complaints, and he has since worked to attack us- threatening to call the police to the school, writing anonymous letters to every website he can find trashing us, bold-face lying about drugs and crossdressing, saying we should be deported. It is beyond belief how vehement his attacks have been.

Sadly, it is just serious sour grapes. The school opted not to give him another contract. They never failed to pay him his money. Everything was in the contract he signed, so I don’t know how he could have been lied to. If he feels the school didn’t honor his contact, he should sue. Does his letter mention any specific cheating or lying? His first paragraph just talks about not getting a twelve month contract. He was never offered a second contact.

He states that he was…literally…asked to babysit and not teach. Can you imagine any school asking you to just baby-sit? Honestly, if a teacher thinks he is there as a baby-sitter, the students are flipping him off, his coworkers “laugh” at him, and he doesn’t know how to follow the book (he says there was no curriculum???), the problem might not be with the school. Chu-Lin is a private elementary school and parents pay a lot of money for their kids to come here. We do a pretty good job. I’m not going to list awards, the schools our kids later get into, GEPT and StyleJet tests scores…Any parent or anyone thinking of working here is welcome to sit in on my class. My students don’t flip me off.

I am writing this response because I am proud of the work we do, and the picture this disgruntled former coworker paints of our school just isn’t right. I fully support online discussions of schools, but sometimes it’s just sour grapes. If Cipos has anything other than that, he should list the facts. If he has valid complaints, take em to court. Anyone can say the school lies, cheats… What can I say about a foreigner who would call the police on other foreigners, say that they should be deported, and go out of his way to attack someone who had absolutely no managerial duties or input into contracts? Hey, I just work here, happily.

He should be ashamed for coming on here and just trashing others with no supporting argument.

If I had an APRC, I would apply. They are looking for APRC holders with open work permits, I believe, so they don’t have to trouble with visa applications. It sounds like at the elementary school, they have found that APRC holders stick around longer.

I can’t speak for the pay, but I can vouch for the working conditions. The staff is awesome. They made me feel very welcome, valued (if not as a licensed teacher, as a solid resource) and supported. They helped me with any student behavior issues, which seldom ever happened. The students are generally well behaved, and some are quite exceptional. The environment is very pleasant. During down times, I often joined the PE class to play badminton, table tennis or volleyball. While I felt that management focused too heavily on the all mighty dollar, and not enough on human resources, I’ve worked for worse.

If you’d like any more info on the jr/sr high, feel free to PM me.

I was referring to the lack of paid holidays, no paid airfare, etc.

Maybe I have higher expectations these days. It’s part of why I am going to get out of normal schools by the end of this year, at least in terms of a contract. With that kind of contract, you get the worst of both worlds – you get the opportunity cost of being stuck on a campus with a lot of down time each week, and you also miss out on the extra benefits I listed above. About the only thing you seem to get is security, but anyone worth his salt can freelance and his abilities and reputation will be his security. Maybe you get the job satisfaction of knowing you’ll have your own class(es) and you’ll be able to shape their formative little minds. I’m sure such jobs do exist somewhere, but I’m just kind of cynical about education these days. For me, it’s a commercial endeavour now. I’m looking for the best hourly rate and benefits.

That would be a giant red flag, for me. :laughing:

Stylejet and GEPT? Hahaha.

There’s probably an element of sour grapes, but it does look pretty awful. Is it ALL lies? Threats undermine the threatener, not the threatenee, no matter what happened.

Then why was a section chief resorting to threats in an attempt to :silenced: him? If he isn’t to be taken seriously, and the great programme at the school speaks for itself, why make legal threats which can’t even be fulfilled?

Yep. I was asked to do so myself at a junior high school when I was a newbie. Thankfully, I had the good sense not to go back after a couple of months. The high-level “exhibition” classes were very well-monitored and I was asked to do tests et cetera with them. With the other classes, myself and the other teachers could do “whatever we liked” because as far as the school was concerned, the parents were paying to have a waiguoren in the classroom, and they didn’t want to be bothered with frivolities such as curriculum or student progress! I have taught several students who have been in similar private schools. Obviously, not all schools are the same, and it sounds as though you really care about your job and your students. I’m just saying that being asked to baby-sit at a private school is really not so far-fetched.

I’m glad that you enjoy working there and that it’s working out for you. Most foreign teachers, however, know about “sour grapes syndrome” and as such, one teacher’s testimony is usually not enough to completely sway our opinions. When department heads start making threats, it says a lot more than anything the teacher could have said. The teacher’s story did not seem so far-fetched, anyhow.

I know that there are a lot of losers out there who couldn’t teach a class to save their lives. There are also a lot of hardworking teachers who are really doing their jobs. Most of us are aware of this and can put both sides together. [/rant]

[quote=“steveyss”]Please delete this article and stop the unreal rumor.
We will resort to legal measures if necessary.

From Chulin Elementary School[/quote]
:moon: :moon: :moon:

Seriously, w445566, you sound like a righteous bloke. Pity you have no managerial input or contract-writing duties, though, because your boss sounds like a right stupid prick. :laughing:

I can just about understand bragging about GEPT results. It may not be recognised anywhere other than Taiwan, and is pretty much a piss poor copy of TOEIC, but the students need it in this country so fair enough. At the moment it’s a means to an end.

But to brag about Stylejet results? A test that is a piss poor copy of the Cambridge young learner exams, was only created because they were difficult and unprofitable, and is admittedly recognised in other countries - as long as you show it to a Shane English School. Other than that nobody will have any idea what it is, other than a cheap attempt by a cheap chain school to make some extra money and kid parents that children are improving.

No decent school that had teachers who knew what they were doing would be using that ‘exam’. I believe that Giraffe English School also produce their own tests, perhaps you should be considering using those? HESS do too. Actually, I’ll knock some up for you for the price of a couple of beers.

Hess also produces its own TEFL certificate for teachers who complete one year (including regular trainings). It’s not actually recognised anywhere though.

English teaching in this country really is like the Wild West.

out of context, it does sound like the school is going too far with the legal threats. However, this former teacher has gone way beyond this forum. From sending emails to people who have interviewed, saying the foreigners need drug tests, writing “warnings” on tealit, saying he was going to stand in front of the school and talk to parents, saying he was going to report “illegal” teachers at the school. When he says things like the school cheats, hires illegal teachers, and threatens to go after the school on a smearing campaign, Taiwanese are serious when they start talking about legal action against him. In emails he has been very aggressive. To me, it might seem a bit much to try to go after the guy, but the school sees it as an attack on its reputation. Heck, the guy wants to have me deported and I just worked in the same school. If a school got online and started saying what an awful teacher so-and-so was, sending emails all over Taiwan, and warning other schools, said he lied and cheated, I think that teacher would consider it crossing the line. I think the school was really insulted by the accusations, which to me shows that they take their jobs seriously.

Sorry to make it sound like we were some super school with the GEPT and StyleJet comment- I just meant that this school, like many private schools, is very focused on the test scores, so babysitting ain’t gonna cut it.

All said, you guys are dang funny. Need a job?

[quote=“w44566”]

All said, you guys are dang funny. Need a job?[/quote]

Yeah, cool. Doing what?

If the guy is being a dick, upping the dick level reduces your power in the situ. Use your brains. Everyone assumes he’s in the right, so far. Maybe you could try to change that by influencing people’s opinions positively towards your school?

In a scumball world, and let’s make no mistake about it, the buxiban industry fits into this slot pretty well, I see the teacher’s actions as not just sour grapes, but as the required response. The owners have all the cards, so if they treat the teachers in such a manner (and they often do), then the teacher has a right to report all shortcomings of the school and any illegal actions they may be taking. And in many instances, whether it taxation and hiring issues, labour law etc., there are often pockets of legislation that are not being followed. Good to see a teacher being just as aggressive back…what nationality was the teacher? :laughing:

In a scumball world, and let’s make no mistake about it, the buxiban industry fits into this slot pretty well, I see the teacher’s actions as not just sour grapes, but as the required response. The owners have all the cards, so if they treat the teachers in such a manner (and they often do), then the teacher has a right to report all shortcomings of the school and any illegal actions they may be taking. And in many instances, whether it taxation and hiring issues, labour law etc., there are often pockets of legislation that are not being followed. Good to see a teacher being just as aggressive back…what nationality was the teacher? :laughing:[/quote]

I’d put money on him being an Antipodean.

[quote=“steveyss”]Please delete this article and stop the unreal rumor.
We will resort to legal measures if necessary.
From Chulin Elementary School[/quote]
Get in line. :unamused:

[quote=“GuyInTaiwan”]I was referring to the lack of paid holidays, no paid airfare, etc.

Maybe I have higher expectations these days. It’s part of why I am going to get out of normal schools by the end of this year, at least in terms of a contract. With that kind of contract, you get the worst of both worlds – you get the opportunity cost of being stuck on a campus with a lot of down time each week, and you also miss out on the extra benefits I listed above. About the only thing you seem to get is security, but anyone worth his salt can freelance and his abilities and reputation will be his security. Maybe you get the job satisfaction of knowing you’ll have your own class(es) and you’ll be able to shape their formative little minds. I’m sure such jobs do exist somewhere, but I’m just kind of cynical about education these days. For me, it’s a commercial endeavour now. I’m looking for the best hourly rate and benefits.[/quote]
I wrote previously, and still strongly believe, the jr/sr high school is a good place to work. The staff and students are great, the environment is comfortable and we were generally given the space to run our program how we felt was best.

With respect to the finances, it was OK, but not great. Admittedly I don’t know what they are offering exactly, but from 4 years of teaching there I can share how it worked at the time. We were paid a “psuedo-salary”. During full months of the regular school year, we were paid a monthly salary that netted a fair rate per class-hour, not spectacular, but fair. In addition to the class hours, for no additional pay, we were expected to judge the English song competition and English speech contests. Three times per semester, we had to calculate and submit grades, which is kind of time consuming considering each teacher had about 17 different classes with a total of nearly 500 students. A reasonable amount of preparation time was expected. God bless the poor soul who did the writing classes (which for 2 years was me) because for each class hour, there was another unpaid hour reviewing the writing projects. Hoped for, but not mandatory, we were sometimes sought to coach students preparing for performances, interviews and entrance exams.

What happened during partial months (IE beginning or end of semester), winter program where class hours were reduced or summer breaks, was our salary was reduced proportionately according to the class hours. It isn’t reasonable to expect employees to put in extra work during the semester without any additional pay, but then cut pay during partial months or other situations where class hours are reduced. A salaried worker generally accepts additional work with no additional pay knowing that it will balance out when they get their usual salary during months with less work.

Further, there were absolutely no financial benefits that some on the forum mention they get from other quality establishments, like airfare, vacation pay or bonuses of any kind.

Like my experience with many, if not most businesses here, management is very cheap. I don’t think they ever increased the amount paid to TLI for the teachers over the length of the relationship, which must have been at least 7 years. This made it difficult for the teachers to get any kind of longevity, or even performance based wage increases, therefore few stayed any length of time. (My stay was the longest, as far as I know.) There was simply no financial incentive to stay. You had to like what you did, and the block hours were nice.

One thing I appreciated, and enjoyed being included in, were the events that management had for staff, specifically luncheons and day trips. Their choice of venues was always top-notch and the food was great. On the other hand, at the events where they did “lucky-draws”, the prizes were often a joke. One year, at the peak of the bicycle craze, the grand prizes for the drawing were bicycles. I was kind of excited because I was considering buying one at the time. Well, I won!! WOO!! A week later, I got the bike. It was a kid-sized frame, cheap-ass bike that I saw at Carrefour for about NT$1300. It was so small, even with the seat fully extended, I couldn’t ride it.

Speaking of the special staff events, I am wondering why I almost never saw any foreign teachers from the elementary school, even though the events included the staffs of both schools. In 4 years, only once did I meet a foreign teacher from the elementary school on one of the day trips, and maybe once I saw one from across the room at any of the luncheons held locally. I NEVER saw one attend the graduation ceremonies, which is a joint event for both schools.

I was thinking of enrolling my kids at this school. Seems like the verdict is still out on whether it is a good place to teach, but how is it for the kids? If (and that’s a big “if”) they don’t treat their teachers well, can I assume they don’t treat the kids well either?