Church of scientology

Arts & Sciences Religion & Spirituality
41

I believe I understand JDSmith to be implying that religions all have cultish aspects; correct me if I’m wrong, and btw, I do not in general disagree.

But the usage of cult in the present context with which I’d agree would be defined something along these lines. Consider this a starting point for discussion, not a definitive set. I most likely won’t have time to continue in the discussion after this point, sorry.

Every cult can be defined as a group having all of the following five characteristics:

  1. It uses psychological coercion to recruit, indoctrinate and retain its members

  2. It forms an elitist totalitarian society. (I’d agree dogmatic religions like Catholicism are completely guilty here, but not necessarily on the other points.)

  3. Its founder leader is self-appointed, dogmatic, messianic, not accountable and has charisma.

  4. It believes ‘the end justifies the means’ in order to solicit funds recruit people.

  5. Its wealth does not benefit its members or society.

from cultinformation.org.uk/faq.html
or try http://www.cultinformation.org.uk if that link fails.

I find Scientology to be an obvious cult, and am not particularly interested in spending time convincing anyone of this. You can reach your own conclusions. Have a nice day.

42

Namahottie, there’s some interesting information on this site but I’d advise looking at it with an open mind. It definitely does not support Scientology but still would be useful for someone looking into or studying the religion. xenu.net

DB, that link you posted in the post above mine doesn’t work.

43

my question is this: what is it?

the most i could find here was this:

"Scientology holds back the mythology on which the cult is based until the budding scientologist has reached a fairly high level of auditing; the mythology being that humans are inhabited by thetans – the souls of alien creatures destroyed by the galactic leader Xenu via nuclear warheads millions of years ago – and that auditing is actually the process of gradually expelling these spirits until “purification” is reached. Obviously a great deal of trust and suggestion must exist before a person could possibly believe such idiocy. "

maybe it’s just me but that wasn’t sinking in. other religions i know of seem a bit, well, simpler by comparison. call me dense.

eric’s comment may sum it up best though:

“Website looks real!”

YEAAHHH! sign me up, lol

44

[quote=“Tempo Gain”]my question is this: what the fuck is it?

the most I could find here was this:

"Scientology holds back the mythology on which the cult is based until the budding scientologist has reached a fairly high level of auditing; the mythology being that humans are inhabited by thetans – the souls of alien creatures destroyed by the galactic leader Xenu via nuclear warheads millions of years ago – and that auditing is actually the process of gradually expelling these spirits until “purification” is reached. Obviously a great deal of trust and suggestion must exist before a person could possibly believe such idiocy. "

maybe it’s just me but that wasn’t sinking in. other religions I know of seem a bit, well, simpler by comparison. call me dense.

eric’s comment may sum it up best though:

“Website looks real!”

YEAAHHH! sign me up, lol[/quote] I think you may have only read the Scientology illustrated version/site, I gave up on that after deciding there had to be more and had a quick browse of the heavier-reading textual stuff. I only found the site I mentioned a few minutes back and will read it properly later. Bedtime. I will probably disagree with my post after sleeping. It happens.

45

No, much less, not even! I want it to be spoonfed to me here. for example. Christianity? god sent his only son and he died for us. i may not believe it but at least it doesn’t confuse me.

46

It is my impression that this is not such a hot topic in Germany anymore. Scientology is not banned in Germany, but they’re not considered to be a religious community. It is true that the Offices for the Protection of the Constitution (gotta love this catchy name) of some states are still watching them. Their reputation is abysmally bad, so they often use affiliated organizations to approach potential new members. The number of members in Germany is estimated to be only about 5000-6000, however, it is hard to define what “members” (clients?) means in this context.

47

I must admit that on my first approach of scientology I was a bit reluctant considering all the “noise” surrounding the fact of it being a religion or not. since I was really interested in the study of different religious groups.
However, having and understood that it was a religion in the fullest sence of the term I got going with it.
Here are a few links to PDF files of religious Scholars around the world study of Scientology, I found it most interesting.

humanrights-germany.org/experts/

48

The special effects and sound were cool though. I liked it when the aliens went WAAAAAHAHAHAHAAH!!!

(ok, I think I better go to sleep)[/quote]
I went to see it last night. It wasn’t bad.

49

Every cult can be defined as a group having all of the following five characteristics:

  1. It uses psychological coercion to recruit, indoctrinate and retain its members

  2. It forms an elitist totalitarian society. (I’d agree dogmatic religions like Catholicism are completely guilty here, but not necessarily on the other points.)

  3. Its founder leader is self-appointed, dogmatic, messianic, not accountable and has charisma.

  4. It believes ‘the end justifies the means’ in order to solicit funds recruit people.

  5. Its wealth does not benefit its members or society.

(from cultinformation.org.uk/faq.html)

I find Scientology to be an obvious cult, and am not particularly interested in spending time convincing anyone of this. You can reach your own conclusions. Have a nice day.[/quote]

So, you provide a list, and then your opinion that Scientology is a cult, without much proof to back it up?

Where is the evidence that scientology satisfies any of these preconditions? With the possible exception of #3 that is…

Honestly DB, I don’t know much about Scientology and I’m curious. you have such strong opinions I’d figure you’d have a bit of reasoning behind it.

Maybe not, but isn’t not explaining one’s reasoning cultish behavior? :wink:

50

Spy magazine put out a hilarious article a few years back in which one of their writers joined up and described the bizarre tin-cans-hooked-to-wires-with-alligator-clips devices that they used for his therapy sessions.

Basically, they want you to admit everything kooky, bad, whatever, that you’ve done with your life. Some people have alleged that they use this information against you if you try to leave the church – that it’s basically blackmail that they hold over the person. In Tom Cruise’s case, given the speculation about his sexuality, perhaps he’s required to be particularly enthusiastic about the religion.

51

[quote=“mofangongren”]Spy magazine put out a hilarious article a few years back in which one of their writers joined up and described the bizarre tin-cans-hooked-to-wires-with-alligator-clips devices that they used for his therapy sessions.

Basically, they want you to admit everything kooky, bad, whatever, that you’ve done with your life. Some people have alleged that they use this information against you if you try to leave the church – that it’s basically blackmail that they hold over the person. In Tom Cruise’s case, given the speculation about his sexuality, perhaps he’s required to be particularly enthusiastic about the religion.[/quote]

was the Spy mag article a spoof??

If not that may very well fit into category #1.

52

Tom Cruise has been dissing Brooke Shields. That is unforgivable.

53

JDSmith:

Bu Lai En:

[quote]They use manipulative mind-control techniques.

They have secret knowledge (often as you go up levels you get more knowledge). Why would a religiont hat wants to actually help peopel keep the knowledge that may help them from non-members?

Bad things are supposed to happen if you leave.

The urge you to cut youself off from non-members.

The ‘truth’ differes at different levels of the cult (eg once you reach a higher level you find out the real reasons).
[/quote]

A little research will show that Scientology meets most, if not all of these criteria.

Brian

54

[quote=“Bu Lai En”]JDSmith:

Bu Lai En:

[quote]They use manipulative mind-control techniques.

They have secret knowledge (often as you go up levels you get more knowledge). Why would a religiont hat wants to actually help peopel keep the knowledge that may help them from non-members?

Bad things are supposed to happen if you leave.

The urge you to cut youself off from non-members.

The ‘truth’ differes at different levels of the cult (eg once you reach a higher level you find out the real reasons).
[/quote]

A little research will show that Scientology meets most, if not all of these criteria.

Brian[/quote]

Well, I was hoping for more facts honestly…“Bad things happen if you leave”…that doesn’t really tell me anything.

Now how about Wahibist Islam? If you quit being a Muslim, can’t other Muslim hunt you down and kill you? That’s bad. But are they a cult?

55

Islam is a cult.

56

Richardm is a cult (typo)

57

[quote=“jdsmith”]Honestly DB, I don’t know much about Scientology and I’m curious. you have such strong opinions I’d figure you’d have a bit of reasoning behind it.

Maybe not, but isn’t not explaining one’s reasoning cultish behavior? :wink:[/quote]

:laughing: No, it’s called lack of time or energy. Do some research into it and perhaps you’ll come to the same conclusions I did; perhaps not. The evidence is easy to find.

Here’s a well known piece on them, from Time Magazine:
The Thriving Cult of Greed and Power
Ruined lives. Lost fortunes. Federal crimes. Scientology poses as a religion but really is a ruthless global scam – and aiming for the mainstream
by Richard Behar
http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Fishman/time-behar.html

It is a pseudo-psychotherapy cult, clearly not a legitimate religion in any form, although it attempts to hide behind that lable. The fact that it charges for its services, hides behind fronts, and is not honest about its teachings up front should be enought to label it a massive scam at the very least.

There are academic treatments of the group at picosearch.com/cgi-bin/ts.pl, a legitimate online scholarly journal with editors as esteemed as Michael Pye. Recommended articles:

http://www.uni-marburg.de/religionswissenschaft/journal/mjr/beit.html
Scientology: Religion or racket? Benjamin Beit-Hallahmi,
University of Haifa

THE FRENCH AND GERMAN VERSUS AMERICAN DEBATE OVER ‘NEW RELIGIONS’, SCIENTOLOGY, AND HUMAN RIGHTS
Stephen A. Kent, Department of Sociology, University of Alberta
http://www.uni-marburg.de/religionswissenschaft/journal/mjr/kent2.html

as well as good overviews at en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientology and similar sources:

http://www.raids.org/gen00286.htm

[quote]Critics

58

[quote=“jdsmith”]Well, I was hoping for more facts honestly…“Bad things happen if you leave”…that doesn’t really tell me anything.
[/quote]

Well, they abduct you, drug you, starve you and deprive you of water, harass you mentally, and sometimes kill you:

[quote]Church of Scientology charged in member’s death
November 14, 1998
The Church of Scientology was charged by Florida prosecutors Friday in the death of a member…McPherson had been a member of the church for 18 years and, according to relatives, had been talking about leaving the church. McPherson, 36, died December 5, 1995, after being confined for 18 days to a Scientology property called the Fort Harrison Hotel, investigators said. …“the dehydration was so severe and life-threatening that in itself it constituted great bodily harm.” …McPherson went without fluids for at least five days and possibly her entire stay at the hotel, Wood said. … The investigator describes various Scientology members giving McPherson medications prescribed by a doctor who had not seen her, including Valium and another sedative. …McPherson… weighed 108 pounds when she died. …[/quote]http://edition.cnn.com/US/9811/14/scientology.response/index.html

[quote]In France it took a death to spur the government into action: 16 Scientologists were indicted last year for fraud and “complicity in the practice of illegal medicine” following the suicide of an industrial designer in Lyon. In the victim’s house investigators found medication allegeally provided to him by the church without doctor’s prescription. Among those charged in the case is the president of Scientology’s French operations and the head of the Paris-based Celebrity Centre, which caters to famous members.[/quote] Pushing Beyond the U.S.: Scientology makes its presence felt in Europe and Canada, By Richard Behar, Time Magazine
http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Fishman/time-behar.html

More reading:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/521345.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/special_report/1999/02/99/e-cyclopedia/392396.stm

http://www.clambake.org/

59

If Scientology is a cult, where does that put Amway?

60

ex-cult.org/Groups/Amway/