Citizenship - Reverse of Taiwan


#1

I was just checking out my options - I find that, for Australian citizens, you automatically lose your Australian citizenship if you apply for another.

But you keep the one(s) you have already when you become an Australian citizen - exactly the reverse of Taiwan as I understand it.

What a wonder hindsight is. I could have easily obtained Australian citizenship - having lived there for 20 years (as a New Zealander, permanent resident status in Australia is automatic so I never bothered) - and kept my New Zealand citizenship. Then I could have surrendered my Australian citizenship to get Taiwanese citizenship, and kept my New Zealand citizenship. Well that is the way it seems. Sure I would have had to get my Taiwan resident visa in an Australian passport - like I said - hindsight.

My life is now in Taiwan, but I would like to keep the citizenship of my country of birth. This seems readily available to Taiwanese, but not to foreigners who want to settle here. The only thing that stops me rearranging my life to make it all happen, is a faint hope that the law will change here someday.

Why do I want a parachute? – well maybe the pro Mainland China cadre will succeed – you cough at the wrong time and you could “become” a subversive or spy, especially if you are not of Chinese appearance.


#2

I added a webpage “Not allowed to be a Taiwanese” to my site…
I think this might be a nice idea for a theme for folks to write
webpages about. If Taiwanese were excluded from becoming
say, Americans, there would be an uproar.


#3

We definitely need a “test case” on a foreigner applying to get ROC Nationality without renunciation of original nationality. However, it seems that no one is interested in challenging the legal regulations there.

In my personal opinion, the best “test case” would be a non-USA citizen. That might look less pushy.


#4

I think the “reverse citizenship” approach to ROC nationality issues is not necessarily to challenge Taipei, but instead to more directly challenge it via Washington and TRA. It is an indirect criticism of ROC nationality policies.

Under TRA, the INA treats Taiwan like a “trust territory” under peace treaty. If one wishes for a “Taiwan Passport” rooted in the San Francisco Peace Treaty, then making a legal claim of “Lost Nationality” for a US Trust Territory Passport is the trick.

Such US Trust Territory Passports are currently, legally issued to some Pacific island nationals, authorized prior to 1986. Their passport claims arose from their status under SFPT.

I saw a recent article on some IT professionals originally from Australia, now US citizens living in California, and they were attempting to persuade the Howard administration to alter the Aussie nationality law.

It seems that dual nationality is allowed for only immigrants, who retained their old country citizenship before naturalization in Australia.

The problem is a glitch of law for any citizen whom obtains a new foreign citizenship sometime after their Australian nationality.


#5

I think that what Jeff (taiwanstatus) has written is very interesting. I don’t want to sound confrontational, however, I must ask, is Jeff prepared to handle a case along the lines outlined in his posting of 11-24-2001 03:37am? Can he take care of all the legal details involved? Has he determined which courts have jurisdiction over such cases? As I understand it, Jeff is currently in Las Vegas, Nevada, USA.

Speaking for myself, I am willing to handle all the legal details for a foreigner in Taiwan who meets the basic “naturalization to Taiwan citizen” eligibility requirements, but who wants to avoid the renunciation of original citizenship issue. I am prepared to work with that person through the entire legal process.

It is a difficult case, but I believe it can be done. From my point of view, I think that the best place to do it would be here in Taiwan. If other people have other ideas, that is fine, and I say more power to them. However, the viability of such ideas must be thoroughly examined.


#6

Out of curiosity (I’m sure I don’t qualify), what are the basic conditions for getting Taiwanese citizenship? I’m guessing that it’s the same as permanent residency and then some.


#7

One should be very skeptical of “new” things, but the “trust territory” status of Taiwan under TRA is rather intriguing. Originally, I thought I was being rather novel in this approach, but I soon discovered differently.

I don’t practice law, but I am afraid that most US private attorneys are not very well versed in the field of Insular Affairs or Military Laws of Occupation. And as for the international law, some are even more confused by jus gentium versus jus feciale. I knew what to look for as a Gulf War veteran of an Army Civil Affairs, and the key role of George Kerr is very important in debunking the historical legal facts of the “Retrocession Day” surrender of Formosa.

Case in point, the military tribunals being set up for use against non-citizens is being debated by civilian attorneys on Larry King on CNN. The loudest detractors have suggested habeus corpus is a basic right of non-citizens, namely our enemy aliens. Not so, according to Johnson v. Eigentrager (1950) and British Common Law. I’ve waded throught these very issues, and I am quite shocked that “multilateralist” attorneys are spreading such false information to the American public. This watershed case was the focal point of a recent letter to the editor in Taipei Times on November 11. Unfortunately, some facts were omitted due to editing but here is a link:

   [url=http://www.taipeitimes.com/news/2001/11/20/story/0000112336]Apostle  Paul and His Rights of Friendly Aliens under Military Jurisdiction[/url]

The court cited Act 2:28 story of St Paul, Citizen of Rome, to illustrate the protections of US citizenship being similar to when Paul invoked Roman law to protect himself against his persecutors. The court then equated such 5th Amendment rights to “friendly aliens”, much like the denizens of TRA, coming under the US military jurisdiction or occupational status.

The legal basis of Taiwanese nationality under TRA is “Civis Romanus Sum, Jus Feciales”, or “I am a citizen (denizen) of Rome because of the Laws of Treaty and Warfare.” There is no “Natural Law” approach to this as favored by the Sinocentric multilateralists.


#8

FOREIGNERS NATURALIZATION INTO TAIWAN
Qualifications for Applying for Taiwan Citizenship
These stipulations are based on the new legal provisions of February 9, 2000.


(1) (a) For those married to ROC nationals, continuous residency in ROC area over the last three years, with 183 days physical presence per year, plus all relevant marriage documents and registrations. (b) For others, continuous residency in ROC area over the last five years, with 183 days physical presence per year in the ROC area.
(2) Relevant record from Bureau of Entry and Exit, in proof of the above.
(3) Valid ARC or PARC, and valid passport.
(4) Clean Criminal Record Documentation (CCRD) from the applicant’s home country Police authority, and from Taiwan Police authority in location of residence.
(5) Proof of adequate means of financial support, including professional skills -or- other ability to make a living in the ROC. (This is specified as: real estate, time deposits, or other assets of NT 5 million or above, -or- proof of income of over NT 32,000 per month over the previous twelve months, payment of income taxes on this, etc.)
(6) Three 2-inch photos.
(7) Application fee.
(8) Application Form.
(9) Original and Chinese translation of loss of original nationality document.


As I have stated previously, the challenge would be against the need to produce the loss of original nationality document. Legally, that would be the difficult part of the process.


#9

So I was wrong. Apart from the giving up of your original passport, it’s actually easier than Permanent Residency. Weird.


#10

So, as I see it, any British citizen (for example) just needs to apply for Taiwanese citizenship, renounce his British citizenship (


#11

Although the “sequence” you have outlined here is not quite correct, what you are saying makes logical sense.

In other words, first renounce your original citizenship, then obtain Taiwan citizenship, then apply for your original citizenship back again.

This is an acceptable procedure, and I can assure you that the Ministry of Interior in Taiwan will have no objection to it. Personally, I find it cumbersome and insulting, however in the final analysis, each person makes their own decision as to how to proceed in such matters.


#12

What about conscription ?

The sections of the British Nationality Act (ss. 12,13) which deal with renunciation and resumption were specifically enacted for the purpose of gaining another citizenship, and indeed if you don’t within six months of renunciation, the renunciation becomes invalid. Resumption may only be granted if the original renunciation was for the purposes of gaining another nationality.

This seems to be recognition that the procedure is merely administrative in nature. But I agree - it is an unnecessary hurdle, and unfair when Taiwanese can be granted British citizenship without having to first renounce their ROC (or any other) citizenship.

Making it difficult for non-Chinese to assume ROC citizenship is simply an attempt by the Taiwanese government to maintain racial purity amongst its citizens. It is acceptable for a Chinese person to be Taiwanese and British (or whatever), but not for a non-Chinese British person to also be Taiwanese.

I eagerly await the day when I apply for Taiwanese citizenship, and my British passport holding Chinese wife becomes my “foreign spouse”. You will have to surgically remove the grin from my face. The OED will have to re-write its definition of “irony”.


#13
quote[quote]I have one question. What is the upper age limit for conscription?[/quote]

The upper limit is 45 years old. (The lower limit is 18 years old.)

However, you might be able to avoid military conscription if you claim to have a physical or mental disability. I’m not sure how hard it would be to prove it, though. During the Vietnam War in the U.S., some people even had half of their “trigger finger” (their first finger of their right hand) amputated in order to avoid the draft.


#14
quote:
Originally posted by Mark Nagel:

During the Vietnam War in the U.S., some people even had half of their “trigger finger” (their first finger of their right hand) amputated in order to avoid the draft.


Can you provide a source for this? I do know some guys had “FTA” (F*CK THE ARMY")tattooed on the side of their hands so that everytime they saluted an officer or NCO it would be an insult. They were all DD’ed (received dishonorable discharges). Not a very bright move as it’s almost impossible to get a job, etc, etc…


#15

45 !?? Unbelieveable ! I intend to be a fat bald beer-bellied slob by then. In fact, no, wait a minute, I’m half way there already…


#16

Richard

In your posting regarding criteria to apply for Citizenship, you list the following item.

(3) Valid ARC or PARC, and valid passport.

But if someone has already renounced their original citizenship, then their passport cannot be valid surely, as its validity would have been removed when the renouncement of citizenship was processed.

To the untrained eye the eligibility criteria are not achieveable.


#17

It is a question of completing the process in stages. One submits the valid passport, and ARC/PARC as part of the preliminary application process.

Then after this part is completed, the government office in charge issues a certificate saying that you are intending to obtain citizenship and are going to renounce your original citizenship. Then you complete that part of it.

(However, at this point, I would advise against taking any such action to renounce one’s original nationality. I have LOBBYING PLANS in the works . . . )