City Life versus Country Life in Taiwan

Taiwan Living in Taiwan
21

Yes, there is a big difference in the culture,if you want to put it that way,of the rural and urban environments. This is similar in most parts of the world (vancouver is progressive and liberal but down the valley people still believe in the literal truth of the Bible) but maybe especially in Taiwan where recent generations all moved to the cities for work and a better life. Sad fact is but the people who move are the more ambitious, educated (or who desire education) and openminded. Those who stay tend to be more conservative, and even backwards.

You are starting to get different pockets of progress as many middle aged people move back to rural areas to open B&Bs, restaurants, etc, or just to retire. Also, rural regeneration is all the rage these days in government circles but you do see some effective policies as much of it is being directed by locals themselves.

Taiwan is just starting to get its funky little liberal villages going. Give it another 10-15 years. But you are always going to have clashes between the lcoals and the outsiders who have come in for their Taiwan Norman Rockwell experience. Spent the summer up in Alaska and had to laugh at some of the same problems people have in small villages with the old local families: for every lovely idylic little cabin, and funked out artist hut, there was a shack littered with 10 rusted out cars, skiddoo parts, bags of trash and heaps or old tires some of which they would burn in the winter. Guy in Taiwan can relate I am sure. :laughing:

22

crystal: The problem with moving somewhere to surf all year round is what you do for a job. Waiao and Toucheng, for instance, are hardly overflowing with buxibans. There are a few places up the coast from Taidong, such as Donghe, but again, there aren’t enough jobs in Taidong. People don’t tend to leave those jobs and they’re very protective of them. Last year, I was in Indonesia and I met a British guy who was a surfer. Before I told him anything about myself, he told me that he taught English near Hong Kong. I told him I lived in Taiwan and he got really suspicious. Then I told him I was moving to Taidong County in a month and he got really suspicious. Then he told me he lived in Taidong. He told me that he tells people he teaches near Hong Kong because he doesn’t want people getting the idea to move to Taidong because there aren’t lots of jobs there and it’s very coveted for its surfing lifestyle. I thought the whole thing was a bit retarded because I can’t imagine droves of people would just flock here anyway. It is hardly convenient for a lot of other things, and if people really said to themselves, “I want to move somewhere to surf” and went on any surfing websites, they’d find the areas around Taidong in about two seconds.

bismarck: You forget that I have a friend who lives in Tainan and I’ve been there many times.

Anyway, as far as the differences between people in the countryside and the city, sure, obviously. There are far more yokels here, and my wife could tell all sorts of crazy stories about the people she’s interacted with. That said, she’s back in Neili/Zhongli at the moment and she described it as being like Vietnam with how shabby, chaotic and fucked up it is. I actually think Vietnamese scooter drivers are better than Taiwanese, though not the truck drivers. Vietnamese truck drivers are scary.

I can actually deal with the yokels in the main. I have my moments, but generally they don’t fuck around with me. Also, the kids can be a bit rough around the edges at times, but I appreciate that they’re not wound super-tight. A friend visits me from Taipei occasionally and he came to my school one day. He remarked that the kids here are so happy and energetic compared to Taipei kids. The other thing I quite like is that there’s a distinct lack of pretentious wankers here. There are some really cool, smart people in the north, and maybe it was just Taoyuan, but I seemed to meet swarms of wealthy people in Taoyuan who were supposedly well-educated and well-travelled, but were, in reality, what we in Australia call cashed up bogans.

[wikipedia]“CUB” or “cashed up bogan,” was used by one marketing researcher in 2006 to describe people of a blue-collar background now earning a high salary and spending their earnings on expensive consumer items as a matter of conspicuous consumption. The media adduced tennis player Lleyton Hewitt and his actress wife, Bec Cartwright, as examples.[12] Subsequently, the Kaesler Winery, in the Barossa Valley, released a Shiraz wine under the name Bogan.[/wikipedia]

[wikipedia]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bogan#Use_in_Marketing[/wikipedia]

23

Keep spreading the word, brother. Keep spreading the word. :thumbsup:

24

[quote=“GuyInTaiwan”]crystal: The problem with moving somewhere to surf all year round is what you do for a job. Waiao and Toucheng, for instance, are hardly overflowing with buxibans. There are a few places up the coast from Taidong, such as Donghe, but again, there aren’t enough jobs in Taidong. People don’t tend to leave those jobs and they’re very protective of them. Last year, I was in Indonesia and I met a British guy who was a surfer. Before I told him anything about myself, he told me that he taught English near Hong Kong. I told him I lived in Taiwan and he got really suspicious. Then I told him I was moving to Taidong County in a month and he got really suspicious. Then he told me he lived in Taidong. He told me that he tells people he teaches near Hong Kong because he doesn’t want people getting the idea to move to Taidong because there aren’t lots of jobs there and it’s very coveted for its surfing lifestyle. I thought the whole thing was a bit retarded because I can’t imagine droves of people would just flock here anyway. It is hardly convenient for a lot of other things, and if people really said to themselves, “I want to move somewhere to surf” and went on any surfing websites, they’d find the areas around Taidong in about two seconds.

bismarck: You forget that I have a friend who lives in Tainan and I’ve been there many times.

Anyway, as far as the differences between people in the countryside and the city, sure, obviously. There are far more yokels here, and my wife could tell all sorts of crazy stories about the people she’s interacted with. That said, she’s back in Neili/Zhongli at the moment and she described it as being like Vietnam with how shabby, chaotic and fucked up it is. I actually think Vietnamese scooter drivers are better than Taiwanese, though not the truck drivers. Vietnamese truck drivers are scary.

I can actually deal with the yokels in the main. I have my moments, but generally they don’t fuck around with me. Also, the kids can be a bit rough around the edges at times, but I appreciate that they’re not wound super-tight. A friend visits me from Taipei occasionally and he came to my school one day. He remarked that the kids here are so happy and energetic compared to Taipei kids. The other thing I quite like is that there’s a distinct lack of pretentious wankers here. There are some really cool, smart people in the north, and maybe it was just Taoyuan, but I seemed to meet swarms of wealthy people in Taoyuan who were supposedly well-educated and well-travelled, but were, in reality, what we in Australia call cashed up bogans.

[wikipedia]“CUB” or “cashed up bogan,” was used by one marketing researcher in 2006 to describe people of a blue-collar background now earning a high salary and spending their earnings on expensive consumer items as a matter of conspicuous consumption. The media adduced tennis player Lleyton Hewitt and his actress wife, Bec Cartwright, as examples.[12] Subsequently, the Kaesler Winery, in the Barossa Valley, released a Shiraz wine under the name Bogan.[/wikipedia]

[wikipedia]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bogan#Use_in_Marketing[/wikipedia][/quote]

I have my own jobs writing and designing websites so i am a very stay-at-home person unless it is to surf and swim… nothing on the west coast? cmon i am sure there are some secret spots on the west coast which the surfers in here are keeping it all to yourselves…

as I said before, I am a writer and website designer in taiwan so I ain’t about to compete with others for their teaching jobs… I dislike teaching or any jobs that requires my physical interaction with lots of people… even small people irk me… :stuck_out_tongue:

You can PM me if you like… :stuck_out_tongue:

25

We seem to be carrying on this discussion across two threads (and I realised in the other one that you were a writer).

The west coast pretty much doesn’t have surfing because of the geography of Taiwan. On the east coast, the Pacific Ocean is pretty deep not too far off Taiwan, then it gets shallow really quickly, so it’s good for wave production. Also, there are different ocean currents, I should imagine.

The west coast has the Taiwan Strait, so it’s not good for wave production. Also, there are tons more (big) cities on the West coast, plus a lot more agriculture and industry. Plus there’s China. That means there’s probably a ton of crap being pumped into the water. I don’t think you’d want to surf there even if there were waves. I saw some guys kite surfing in Taoyuan once (the waves were really small and choppy) and the water was a pretty rank colour. I wasn’t sure whether it was from silt being churned up or pollution. I wouldn’t like to find out either.

I’m not saying this to protect any kind of secret. Again, you’d be able to find this out in a second if you wanted to. I’m a casual surfer (and haven’t surfed very much in the past two years) and don’t have a patch to defend as I live an hour from the ocean.

26

[quote=“Deauce Dropper”]And please spare me with the “Oh, I hate big cities so that is why I live in Kaohsiung and not Taipei.” The fuck? You chose one smaller but more polluted and probably more fucked up in an urban sense milieu because you ‘hate big cities’? The fuck?
IF you ‘hate big cities’, live somewhere on the East Coast, because most of TW is just smaller big cities, and you’ll inevitably end up very miserable.[/quote]

I’m going to go out on a limb here and compare Kaohsiung to Taipei.

You see, I can stand on the hill and look down on Kaohsiung and say: “Yes. This is a real city.”
To me Kaohsiung has that city vibe that Taipei just doesn’t have. All I see when I look down on Taipei is a ditch with stick stuck in it - as if constructing the once tallest building in the world will put it on the map somehow.
Taipei is a farce - a fake. It has sterile culture on paradoxically grimy streets. Most of the pleasant or historically interesting buildings have been torn down to make way for parking lots or ugly apartment buildings, which in a decade or so will start to fall into disrepair as birth rates in Taiwan are rapidly declining.
Many of you will point out the easy to access trails around the city, which are all very nice. And I agree, but the trails are not the city. Many of you will point out that you can eat at western style restaurants or buy western goods with ease and convenience. But if I wanted to eat at western restaurants and buy western products like I can in the west, I would live in London or Milan, not a city in Asia.
The fact that western products, and often mediocre western style restaurants in Taipei are vastly overpriced just makes me dislike the place even more.

In Taipei, I pay through the nose for everything.
You can’t drive anywhere because you can’t turn left.
Or right.
You have to go all the way to the sodding Philippines just to do a U-turn on Renai Road.
All the traffic lights are out of sync. The MRT is nice but it doesn’t really go anywhere I want to go, and in any case it’s quicker to get anywhere in Taipei on a scooter.
Some posters may point out the parks in Taipei, but in Kaohsiung I find there are many, many smaller, very well landscaped parks dotted everywhere around the city, wherever you go.
The cycle paths in Taipei are located next to stinking rivers. The cycle paths in Kaohsiung follow the old harbor railway lines and offer interesting views of the city. And you can use them to get to work.
The streets are wider and colorfully lit and the taller buildings are interesting - they remind me vaguely of Hong Kong. The river has been cleaned up and has boats on it. It has a harbor. The traffic lights are intelligent and improve the flow of traffic. There are filter lanes.
But the thing I find best about Kaohsiung is that it is honest. It is blue collar working class. It has a down-to-earth feeling with none of the arrogance and pretentiousness of Taipei. Quality of life isn’t measured by convenience and the proximity to a 7-11, and the emphasis of designer fashion, which looks strangely at odds with the glum, drab, slate gray environment of Taipei, is not as strong.
People who live in Kaohsiung grew up there. They worked the docks. They farmed the land. They worked in some highly polluting chemical works. They worked the railways and fixed cranes and re-fitted oil tankers made in Panama. The city they were born in and grew up in belongs to them, not some yuppies with rice-field inheritance. It is a city of industry and it does nothing to hide the fact.
Kaohsiung feels more international to me than Taipei does - more culturally diverse, and yet, more local.
All that being said, it’s not perfect. but it is exactly what I expect an Asian city to be like. Compare this to Taipei - an Asian city trying to behave like a western city, but failing spectacularly.

I don’t live in Kaohsiung, but I have done and wouldn’t mind living there again.

27

I don’t know if any of that’s true about Gaoxiong, but you sure make it sound nice. Everything you said about Taipei and its inhabitants is spot on. I love the hyperbole, I love the cynicism, and I love how you adore Gaoxiong. Nice post.

28

Hmm. :ponder: I think I understand your humor, Hans.

29

I feel so sad now. So many people and places I love have been found wanting. How shall I carry on?

30

Glass half full. If word of this spreads it’ll keep out the undesirables. Win-win. :wink:

31

Well, one different perspective: i live in Hualien City because it has a university i like, because it is large enough to have pretty well all essential services, because from anywhere in the city i can see the mountains and smell the sea, because there is always air i can breathe, because it is small enough that i can go anywhere on a bicyle in at most 30 minutes, because it takes me no more than said 30 minutes to be outside the city - and, very importantly, because the people who live there are generally easy going and love “hanging out”. :slight_smile: Boring? Not for me… :slight_smile:

32

Taipei is a bit stinky and the traffic can be annoying, but it’s not that bad. It also has a few other good points:

Yangminshan, Maocong, Da’an park, Shida night market, Rao he night market, Gonguan night market, Tianmu, Elephant Mountain, Bitan, Wulai, Pinglin, the North Coast, the NE Coast, Danshui, Neihu, pubs pubs pubs, pool parties, many Hash House Harrier clubs, numerous social groups and networks to explore, huge variety of food, great markets, interesting government buildings, intriguing old neighborhoods, great temples, great transportation, much cheaper than most world cities of its calibre, best job situation in Taiwan, best arts in Taiwan, easy to get to the rest of Taiwan.

Tainan seems to have a cool vibe. The people there seem to have a kind of cultural confidence I don’t see too often in Taiwan. I love the old buildings too, including the Japanese era ones, and the traffic circles.

People ranting against both places are in my opinion far too negative.

33

[quote=“GuyInTaiwan”]We seem to be carrying on this discussion across two threads (and I realised in the other one that you were a writer).

The west coast pretty much doesn’t have surfing because of the geography of Taiwan. On the east coast, the Pacific Ocean is pretty deep not too far off Taiwan, then it gets shallow really quickly, so it’s good for wave production. Also, there are different ocean currents, I should imagine.

The west coast has the Taiwan Strait, so it’s not good for wave production. Also, there are tons more (big) cities on the West coast, plus a lot more agriculture and industry. Plus there’s China. That means there’s probably a ton of crap being pumped into the water. I don’t think you’d want to surf there even if there were waves. I saw some guys kite surfing in Taoyuan once (the waves were really small and choppy) and the water was a pretty rank colour. I wasn’t sure whether it was from silt being churned up or pollution. I wouldn’t like to find out either.

I’m not saying this to protect any kind of secret. Again, you’d be able to find this out in a second if you wanted to. I’m a casual surfer (and haven’t surfed very much in the past two years) and don’t have a patch to defend as I live an hour from the ocean.[/quote]

I am not saying you are protecting any kind of secret. My last post was aimed at the surfers in here.

With all the radiation problems going on in Japan, I think east coast surfers are far more likely to develop dorsal fins than west coast surfers… plus with all these quakes going on right now… the west coast is far less likely to experience gigantic tsunamis than the east coast

34

Hans, i agree with you on kaohsiung. It certainly does have a far more local feel…that to me is a direct result of being an industrial city rather than a “buy stuff from china and re export it city” hehe.

I personally cant take handle k town, it is my least favourite place in Taiwan…but if i was in north taiwan and taipei was the only place to buy many things it would probably be there. I am not a fan of any of the big cities myself, i do enjoy Hualien more than the rest though! but in the south, we can have 6 months of zero rain in the dry season (i avoid the winter word here cause we dont get one)…so aside from all the pollution, and the winds coming from china, it is farcking dusty hot and still humid as a sauna.

But it certainly is doing a lot as of late to beautify iteself. more parks, redoing roads all pretty and city like with LED and fancy solar panels etc. And more trees, always a good move. Lots was done prior to the world games i found, i hope they keep up with the parks/trees, it has really changed the city in the little time i have been around taiwan. BUt that doesnt change teh fact its a hot, stuffy dirty city that is pretty crowded (though congested than parts of taipei i would think). But the personality of many peoepl i know/run into there is a far far different one than even 40km away!

maybe thats what amazes me, as this isnt a Taiwan phenomena, but maybe its because the “micro cultures” can be SO close to each other, yet so different.

35

With due respect, that doesn’t make sense: radioactively contaminated sea water moves from Japan across the Pacific to the NA continent and then returns to this part of the world after a year or later - at that time everything will be well-mixed and you will be hard pressed to show higher radiation levels on the east side of Taiwan than on the west. :ponder:
Anyway, you seem to have already decided that the east coast is not for you, and that is no problem for anybody here, and i have nothing else to add to the discussion. :slight_smile:

36

[quote=“crystaleye”][quote=“GuyInTaiwan”]We seem to be carrying on this discussion across two threads (and I realised in the other one that you were a writer).

The west coast pretty much doesn’t have surfing because of the geography of Taiwan. On the east coast, the Pacific Ocean is pretty deep not too far off Taiwan, then it gets shallow really quickly, so it’s good for wave production. Also, there are different ocean currents, I should imagine.

The west coast has the Taiwan Strait, so it’s not good for wave production. Also, there are tons more (big) cities on the West coast, plus a lot more agriculture and industry. Plus there’s China. That means there’s probably a ton of crap being pumped into the water. I don’t think you’d want to surf there even if there were waves. I saw some guys kite surfing in Taoyuan once (the waves were really small and choppy) and the water was a pretty rank colour. I wasn’t sure whether it was from silt being churned up or pollution. I wouldn’t like to find out either.

I’m not saying this to protect any kind of secret. Again, you’d be able to find this out in a second if you wanted to. I’m a casual surfer (and haven’t surfed very much in the past two years) and don’t have a patch to defend as I live an hour from the ocean.[/quote]

I am not saying you are protecting any kind of secret. My last post was aimed at the surfers in here.

With all the radiation problems going on in Japan, I think east coast surfers are far more likely to develop dorsal fins than west coast surfers… plus with all these quakes going on right now… the west coast is far less likely to experience gigantic tsunamis than the east coast[/quote]

As Yuli said, the radiation goes up north first. Check the weather/sea current patterns. Which reminds me, you do know that teh west coast is complitely obliterated with those anti-sea invasion structures? They dumped them in the 50s and are still there, generating a corrosion iof the soil. So, thsoe beaches are not only un-swimable -because of pollution from factories- but also you have dangerous eddies and debris from those structures built to stop amphibian vehicles coming through. I mean, there is a reason there is practically no surfing on that side. Even in Kenting, for Pete’s sake, you’ll be swimming in warm water from the nuclear reactor’s cooling tanks, that is why the corals have died over there.

Oh, and there was a study that the West coast is in more danger of a tsunami, first of all because the beaches are eroded -from what I said above plus illegal dragging for sand- in case the Philipine fault is activated. Kaohsiung, actually, won’t be as bad because of the harbor’s shape, but as the wave gathers strenght up north… Not to mention if -Heaven forbid- any of the 20 nuclear plants in Fujian province and whereabouts decides to go kooky…

In summary, better come here and explore to your heart’s content, evaluate, check and recheck, study in deep and get to know the place to make a better choice, more suitable to your wants and needs.

37

I live right on the edge of Jiayi city. A one minute drive to Lan Tan (the lake in town). Things are green. My neighbors are educated well-mannered people (generally speaking that is). I’ve lived in Taiwan for 11 years. First year and a half in Taichung, 4 years plus in Taipei and the rest here in Chiayi. It can be pretty boring if what you want are night clubs and shopping malls. But I have a decent group of friends and like living here most of the time. The Tai-Ke (Taiwanese red-necks) are a plenty but they rarely if ever bother with foreigners down here. Cost of living is way cheaper than in Taipei. 3 and a bit hour drive to Kenting. If I want to have a nice meal Taichung is an hour and a half drive.

I dunno. Out of the three places i’ve lived on the island I think I might like it here the most. Although I have been toying with the idea of moving to the outskirts of Kaoshiung so I can be closer to Kenting. Like some posters have already said. It’s what you make of it wherever you are.

38

I love where I live. Surf every day, twenty min train ride to work, and I love the country people- they’re tough and keep to themselves. It’s the people who visit from the city who bother me- always screeching when they see my dogs and crowding up my beach. Ah well, every place has it’s pros and cons (but my place is best for me)

39

[quote=“Icon”][quote=“crystaleye”][quote=“GuyInTaiwan”]We seem to be carrying on this discussion across two threads (and I realised in the other one that you were a writer).

The west coast pretty much doesn’t have surfing because of the geography of Taiwan. On the east coast, the Pacific Ocean is pretty deep not too far off Taiwan, then it gets shallow really quickly, so it’s good for wave production. Also, there are different ocean currents, I should imagine.

The west coast has the Taiwan Strait, so it’s not good for wave production. Also, there are tons more (big) cities on the West coast, plus a lot more agriculture and industry. Plus there’s China. That means there’s probably a ton of crap being pumped into the water. I don’t think you’d want to surf there even if there were waves. I saw some guys kite surfing in Taoyuan once (the waves were really small and choppy) and the water was a pretty rank colour. I wasn’t sure whether it was from silt being churned up or pollution. I wouldn’t like to find out either.

I’m not saying this to protect any kind of secret. Again, you’d be able to find this out in a second if you wanted to. I’m a casual surfer (and haven’t surfed very much in the past two years) and don’t have a patch to defend as I live an hour from the ocean.[/quote]

I am not saying you are protecting any kind of secret. My last post was aimed at the surfers in here.

With all the radiation problems going on in Japan, I think east coast surfers are far more likely to develop dorsal fins than west coast surfers… plus with all these quakes going on right now… the west coast is far less likely to experience gigantic tsunamis than the east coast[/quote]

As Yuli said, the radiation goes up north first. Check the weather/sea current patterns. Which reminds me, you do know that teh west coast is complitely obliterated with those anti-sea invasion structures? They dumped them in the 50s and are still there, generating a corrosion iof the soil. So, thsoe beaches are not only un-swimable -because of pollution from factories- but also you have dangerous eddies and debris from those structures built to stop amphibian vehicles coming through. I mean, there is a reason there is practically no surfing on that side. Even in Kending, for Pete’s sake, you’ll be swimming in warm water from the nuclear reactor’s cooling tanks, that is why the corals have died over there.

Oh, and there was a study that the West coast is in more danger of a tsunami, first of all because the beaches are eroded -from what I said above plus illegal dragging for sand- in case the Philipine fault is activated. Kaohsiung, actually, won’t be as bad because of the harbor’s shape, but as the wave gathers strenght up north… Not to mention if -Heaven forbid- any of the 20 nuclear plants in Fujian province and whereabouts decides to go kooky…

In summary, better come here and explore to your heart’s content, evaluate, check and recheck, study in deep and get to know the place to make a better choice, more suitable to your wants and needs.[/quote]

Taiwan’s reactors are located on the northern and southern tips of the island. Fujian’s 2 reactors are in the process of being built which I highly doubt will be completed. Within the next few years, China will begin rolling out renewable energy generators which will put the nuclear business out of commission for good.

You know they have better surf waves… much better surf waves on the eastern coast rather than on the western coast… I wonder why…

40

I’m going to vouch for Hualien City. It’s the best of all worlds. It’s just big enough to have everything you might need but small enough not to be anything resembling a big city. Mountains and ocean are both minutes away from the downtown core, world class tourist destinations, lots of hiking and diving possibilities, never mind the cycling. Taitung (the next best place on the island imho) is only two hours away. Sure, there’s no night clubs and the shopping is sub-par, but beer is available and there is a vibrant social scene and who cares about shopping anyhow?

The only downsides to Hualien are the threat of typhoons, the earthquakes, the incessant rain that comes over the winter months and the surfers.

Ecaps