Civil service exams should NOT be offered in Mandarin

Why should those loyal to China be allowed to hold posts in the Taiwanese civil service?

Hakka, Hokkien, and the Aboriginal languages should be offered as options, but Waishengren who only speak Mandarin have no respect for the culture of their adopted nation and are therefore unfit to be in its civil service.

Waishengren who speak only Mandarin are about as Taiwanese as I am.

Ever thought of the fact that they don’t want to fit it? They don’t consider themselves Taiwanese…hope that’s not news for you?!

Jesus, Troll Central today. That rain last night must’ve flushed the sewers out good and proper.

No doubt, the rain does explain a lot that does go around here…

I know bendiren who can’t speak Taiwanese.

My serious answer is that the civil service exam should be in Mandarin (it is the national language) with a section where you have to choose a passage in one of Taiwanese, Hakka, an Aboriginal language or English. Thus all civil servants would be required to be bilingual.

Brian

That is the best solution.

I disagree.

Lets say Country X has a civil war between Leftist Authoritarian Thugs and Rightist Authoritarian Thugs.

The LATs win the civil war, and the RATs are forced to flee to Country Y, forming slightly more than 10% of the country’s population when everything is said and done.

Let’s say that in Country Y, people speak Languages A (60%), B (25%), C (15%), and D (10%), while in Country X, people speak Language E.

Should the Xians use their wealth and power to impose Language E, Culture E, and Ideology RAT on the natives of Country Y, or should the Xians behave as guests in the home of the Yians and try their best to fit into one of Y’s cultural groups, while at the same time working together to preserve Xian culture?

The Waishengren chose the former path: Why should the aboriginals and the Benshengren have to accept this when they finally regain power?

You’re about 50 years too late.

Even arguing that culturally it would be a Good Thing[tm], you still need to show that reverting to some “quaint” cultural identity will actually lead to a greater good for Taiwan. Saying that Taiwan’s national language, ethnicity, practice should now be Minnanese instead of Mandarin is academic. No one has been able to show or argue persuasively that all of Taiwan would be better off in such a state.

In fact, it would be easily shown how bad Taiwan would be if it accomplished such a thing. If you need any such proof, look to Malaysia around 1980s-1990s where they did just that with Bahasa Malaysia language and ethnic identity throughout its school systems. The result was that many Malaysians could no longer survive in an international world. They couldn’t speak the language of business, English (despite the fact that English is one of their national languages). International businesses, looking to Malaysian human resources for their operations found it very lacking. Malaysia could not sell itself despite obvious advantages, all because some people thought it would be great to blow Malaysia’s horn in the world and show how they’ve arrived. Everyone needs to take notice of Malaysia, because Malaysia is great! Well, they’ve reversed themselves and no one is trumpeting such practices. The new PM is advocating and promoting anti-corruption measures, practicing inclusive, not exclusive, politics, and opening itself up to foreign investment and education greater than ever. He knows the world competition is tough and Malaysia needs to carve out its own niche in a brave new world where China will be the Economic Emperor in this region.

All these things is what Taiwan should be doing but is not doing. It should be reaching out and adopting non-Taiwanese ideas and practices, not looking inward and searching the past for some sort of “Who am I” identity-crisis thing. By the time Taiwan people wake up from this wasted effort, the rest of the world will have passed it by, and Taiwan people will again know what it means to be an island nation, a third world country with once modern relics of its potential.

Christ JJ, noone is arguing with you about KMT imposition of Northern Chiense language and culture on the Taiwanese.

Your topic was about the Civil Service exam. I offered what I believe to be the best solution in light of the current reality, which is that Mandarin is the national language, and the language understood by the most people on Taiwan.

If you just wanted to rant about something which has already been done to death on the forums, why bring up the question of the civil service examinations at all?

brian

They don’t. There are mechanisms to change the national language. If you or anyone else want to campaign for changing the national language, then you are allowed to do so. As soon as enough like minded people are elected to office, they can push a bill to change the national language. While they’re at it, they can vote to change the name of the country, change the national flag and anthem and declare independence. If you want to change these things, then follow process. Otherwise, shut the fuck up. If a green dominated government doesn’t have the balls or ability to implement language policy reform according to constitutional processes, then why should I respect their demands to make Taiwanese the national language?

Er, have you asked any Taiwanese people what they think ?

So I assume that jj_frap living in Ontario has rejected the languages of the evil French and English invaders, and communicates only in Cayuga, Cree, Delaware, Mohawk, Ojibwe, Oji-Cree, or Oneida ? Otherwise he has no respect for Ontario and has no right to live there.

How about accepting that Taiwan is a multi-culture, multi-lingual country and stop putting one language/culture over the other?

Gosh, sometimes I think Taiwan should take Switzerland as an example. Why not let Chinese be the official language and speak what ever language in private?

[quote=“mesheel”]How about accepting that Taiwan is a multi-culture, multi-lingual country and stop putting one language/culture over the other?

Gosh, sometimes I think Taiwan should take Switzerland as an example. Why not let Chinese be the official language and speak what ever language in private?[/quote]

What the problem is, is that they don’t want to be considered Chinese and so they want Minnanese to be the “top language”. Then sure, everything else can be “multi-cultural,” “multi-lingual”, so long as the #1 is Minnanese, Taiwanese, anything not Mandarin, KMT, Mainland related etc etc.

The funny thing is that you go to the Greater Chinese speaking parts of the world, people easily and naturally identify themselves as Chinese even though they are Fujianese, Hakka, Hokkien, Cantonese, HongKongers, whatever. It’s only folks here in Taiwan who have an amazing aversion to being associated even remotely to “Chinese”. Maybe they might accept that they are Chinese “cousins” third removed :unamused: These folks are wasting their time. Rome is burning and they’re arguing whether to communicate in Minnanese or Mandarin and they’re probably arguing it in Mandarin. Whatever. :loco:

I’m not German, but German is one of the official languages of my country. Nobody speaks German in private and most of the people don’t even like the language.

Why can’t Chinese be the official language of Taiwan and people speak their dialects in private?

Yeah, yeah, I know why…don’t start giving me lessons in Chinese history and politics. It’s just my idea to solve the problem here.

[quote=“Bu Lai En”]My serious answer is that the civil service exam should be in Mandarin (it is the national language) with a section where you have to choose a passage in one of Taiwanese, Hakka, an Aboriginal language or English. Thus all civil servants would be required to be bilingual.

Brian[/quote]
Brian, why is it desirable for all civil servants to be bilingual? Are there many civil-service positions where this is actively useful?

Incidentally, we’re talking about a written test here? How do you do that in a language with no (standard) written form?

Are we to assume those in the U.S. that only speak English are loyal to England?

But now seriously, with the drive for Taiwanese to learn English, why don’t they have the exam in English? :wink:

One word:

Quebec

Mandatory bilingualism is a pain in the ass and more trouble than its dubious worth.

Bilingualism should not be mandatory though. I agree with that. There are several cities in Switzerland that are bilingual and nobody complains!