Climate Change VI - Warmists and their Demise


#221

Fred, as I have already said, I think Moore is making a contribution to our overall knowldege. The greenies need to be challenged. I never said his views should never be accepted.

But there is no evidence or compelling argument of communism being the source of environmentalism given by Moore or yourself.


#222

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Carbo … 400kyr.png

greenphysicist2.blogspot.tw/2010 … evels.html

This fear mongering has to stop. We don’t even need to learn English. The whole world will be speaking Chinese in the next few years (excluding those who have been living in Taiwan for 20 years)
And the planet will be save and China will have all the bucks.


#223

DAMN. FOILED… I really wanted you to be hypocritical here and curse him to the high heavens. I had already prepared all my links for all the corporate assistance and involvement… grrrr… you have ruined my happy moment and avoided my clever trap… damn. curses. damn. Damn. HELL.

Will look for some more. How about we look at it this way. Many disgruntled types in the West gravitated toward communism before the wall fell. Now that there is no communism to gravitate to, many find common cause and purpose in environmental movements. Will have to spend some time to search up some more motivation stuff but I think that we can agree on the above, no?

Fred


#224

[quote=“fred smith”]
Will look for some more. How about we look at it this way. Many disgruntled types in the West gravitated toward communism before the wall fell. Now that there is no communism to gravitate to, many find common cause and purpose in environmental movements. Will have to spend some time to search up some more motivation stuff but I think that we can agree on the above, no?
Fred[/quote]

Tired and busy now so will get back to you in a few days.


#225

[quote=“fred smith”]Many disgruntled types in the West gravitated toward communism before the wall fell. Now that there is no communism to gravitate to, many find common cause and purpose in environmental movements. Will have to spend some time to search up some more motivation stuff but I think that we can agree on the above, no?
[/quote]

They weren’t real communicsts, they were only disgruntled?

Are there are numerical sources that tak about a increase in greenies and a decrease in commies happening in the same time frame?

What is the common cause and purpose supposedly shared between greens and coms?

What about the diversity of the green movement? Are you saying it is all a commie plot or that some parts were affected by these supposedly disgruntled twice commies?

Do you have any biographical sources “how I went from commie to greenie”, sociology papers “the transformation of the NGO movement from red to green” or journalistic articles that quote sources from inside these movements rather than just their detractors?


#226

Tree-rings prove climate was WARMER in Roman and Medieval times than it is now - and world has been cooling for 2,000 years

dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/ … ds-newsxml

[quote]How did the Romans grow grapes in northern England? Perhaps because it was warmer than we thought.

A study suggests the Britain of 2,000 years ago experienced a lengthy period of hotter summers than today.

German researchers used data from tree rings – a key indicator of past climate – to claim the world has been on a ‘long-term cooling trend’ for two millennia until the global warming of the twentieth century.

This cooling was punctuated by a couple of warm spells…

The finding may force scientists to rethink current theories of the impact of global warming

Professor Esper’s group at the Institute of Geography at JGU used tree-ring density measurements from sub-fossil pine trees originating from Finnish Lapland to produce a reconstruction reaching back to 138 BC.

In so doing, the researchers have been able for the first time to precisely demonstrate that the long-term trend over the past two millennia has been towards climatic cooling.

…Professor Esper said: 'Such findings are also significant with regard to climate policy, as they will influence the way today’s climate changes are seen in context of historical warm periods.’[/quote]

I know liberals love to totally discount things they simply don’t like by criticzing the source so here’s a slightly more academic reference:

Climate in northern Europe reconstructed for the past 2,000 years: Cooling trend calculated precisely for the first time

uni-mainz.de/eng/15491.php

[quote]In addition to the cold and warm phases, the new climate curve also exhibits a phenomenon that was not expected in this form. For the first time, researchers have now been able to use the data derived from tree-rings to precisely calculate a much longer-term cooling trend that has been playing out over the past 2,000 years. Their findings demonstrate that this trend involves a cooling of -0.3°C per millennium due to gradual changes to the position of the sun and an increase in the distance between the Earth and the sun.

“This figure we calculated may not seem particularly significant,” says Esper. “However, it is also not negligible when compared to global warming, which up to now has been less than 1°C. Our results suggest that the large-scale climate reconstruction shown by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) likely underestimate this long-term cooling trend over the past few millennia.”[/quote]

So there’s something else inconvenient to ignore, just like everything else liberals don’t like. Please feel free to not discuss this just like you don’t discuss anything else that shows your position to be the absolute fraud that it is.


#227

[quote=“johnny138”]
Tree-rings prove climate was WARMER in Roman and Medieval times than it is now - and world has been cooling for 2,000 years

dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/ … ds-newsxml

[quote]How did the Romans grow grapes in northern England? Perhaps because it was warmer than we thought.

A study suggests the Britain of 2,000 years ago experienced a lengthy period of hotter summers than today.

German researchers used data from tree rings – a key indicator of past climate – to claim the world has been on a ‘long-term cooling trend’ for two millennia until the global warming of the twentieth century.

This cooling was punctuated by a couple of warm spells…

The finding may force scientists to rethink current theories of the impact of global warming

Professor Esper’s group at the Institute of Geography at JGU used tree-ring density measurements from sub-fossil pine trees originating from Finnish Lapland to produce a reconstruction reaching back to 138 BC.

In so doing, the researchers have been able for the first time to precisely demonstrate that the long-term trend over the past two millennia has been towards climatic cooling.

…Professor Esper said: 'Such findings are also significant with regard to climate policy, as they will influence the way today’s climate changes are seen in context of historical warm periods.’[/quote]

I know liberals love to totally discount things they simply don’t like by criticzing the source so here’s a slightly more academic reference:

Climate in northern Europe reconstructed for the past 2,000 years: Cooling trend calculated precisely for the first time

uni-mainz.de/eng/15491.php

[quote]In addition to the cold and warm phases, the new climate curve also exhibits a phenomenon that was not expected in this form. For the first time, researchers have now been able to use the data derived from tree-rings to precisely calculate a much longer-term cooling trend that has been playing out over the past 2,000 years. Their findings demonstrate that this trend involves a cooling of -0.3°C per millennium due to gradual changes to the position of the sun and an increase in the distance between the Earth and the sun.

“This figure we calculated may not seem particularly significant,” says Esper. “However, it is also not negligible when compared to global warming, which up to now has been less than 1°C. Our results suggest that the large-scale climate reconstruction shown by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) likely underestimate this long-term cooling trend over the past few millennia.”[/quote]

So there’s something else inconvenient to ignore, just like everything else liberals don’t like. Please feel free to not discuss this just like you don’t discuss anything else that shows your position to be the absolute fraud that it is.[/quote]

Oops, it appears you missed a key phrase in your own quote. Here it is.


#228

[quote=“cfimages”]Oops, it appears you missed a key phrase in your own quote. Here it is.

Oops, it appears you missed a key phrase too:

Nice try. No dice.


#229

[quote=“johnny138”][quote=“cfimages”]Oops, it appears you missed a key phrase in your own quote. Here it is.

Oops, it appears you missed a key phrase too:

Nice try. No dice.[/quote]

There’s no real expectation of global warming up to now. It’s always been what will occur over the next century. In fact, the warming that we’ve seen so far that they reference caused surprise when it was first observed because no one expected we’d see any until around 2025 at the earliest. If anything, their mention of it just bolsters the evidence for AGW.


#230

[quote=“johnny138”]
I know liberals love to totally discount things they simply don’t like [/quote]

Hasn’t this been politicized enough? This is not really about left or right wing; it’s about science and what actually happens.


#231

From Wikipedia:

and


#232

Of course, some branches of environmentalism and many environmentalists are quite left wing. The question is whether ex-commies swelled the ranks of greenies after 89. Also, whether environmentalism itself or the global environmental movement in general is essentially Marxist. I see no evidence of either thing.

Perhaps Americans confuse social democracy with socialism, but Canadians are quite aware of the difference. I have met many many environmentalists, and most of them were left of center. Very few however were serious socialists and barely any were Marxists.


#233

[quote=“fred smith”]

And the very next line after your large, bolded text reads.

The green movement, like any other, comprises people from a wide range of politics, beliefs, demographics etc. There are communist greens and conservative greens. Liberal greens and libertarian greens. In fact, considering your own quotes mention that civil liberties, social justice and so on are often linked with green politics that puts them on a different pole than communist politics which opposes civil liberties et al.


#234

I just sold my solar energy stocks (TAN) for a 150% profit over, what was it, two years ago? Good thing too because I lost on everything else. Anyway, it looks as though there are quite a few green capitalists around.


#235

Links with Marxists. Need any more pus? :laughing:

keywiki.org/index.php/Maude_Barlow

[quote]Unlike much of the mainstream left in Canada, the International Socialists oppose Left Nationalism, which argues that Canada is a colony or dependency of the United States. The I.S. maintains that Canada is a leading capitalist country with an independent ruling class that carries out its own acts of imperialism. At the same time, members of the I.S., including members of its steering committee, were also members of the left nationalist Council of Canadians as recently as 2002.

[/quote]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Socialists_(Canada)

[quote]Goldstick is currently a member of the Council of Canadians and is active in peace, anti-war, and Palestinian solidarity movements. He is a member of Not In Our Name, an anti-Zionist group. Goldstick is a long-time member of the Central Committee of the Communist Party of Canada for whom he has been a frequent candidate at the federal and provincial level. He is currently the founding editor of the Communist Party’s theoretical journal The Spark.which is on its 21st edition. His recent editorials have addressed the state and nationalization, the economic crisis, and democracy.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dan_Goldstick [/quote]


#236

[quote=“finley”]more lunacy from warmists, and leftist extremists:

foxnews.com/scitech/2012/04/ … ctic-edge/[/quote]

Yep, that should end it right there, unless these folks wanna keep flirting.


#237

[quote=“Deuce Dropper”][quote=“Super Sex Machine Poster Par Excellence”]more lunacy from warmists, and leftist extremists:

foxnews.com/scitech/2012/04/ … ctic-edge/[/quote]

Yep, that should end it right there, unless these folks wanna keep flirting.[/quote]

pfft. Those limp-wristed pinkos at the Pentagon and tree-hugger “businessmen” are going to be looking mighty silly in 2030 when it all turns out to be a hoax. They’ll be wishing they’d paid more attention to visionaries like Vincent Gray.

You found one marxist who’s a Canadian environmentalist. Therefore all Canadian environmentalists are Marxists. With that sort of prowess in logic, you’ll be elected to the Taiwan legislature in no time :thumbsup:


#238

Or what?

In 1997, the US was the only nation who would not sign onto a Kyoto type accord to reduce CO2. Fast forward 15 years and the climate change issue has become ever so much more serious and the success of Kyoto type accords or Treaties has changed how exactly to fit these dire new realities? I think that there has already been an end to his right here but… if you want to keep flirting… I am sure that there are still well-meaning types out there who will continue to fund your types of concerns… to “make a difference, a positive difference.” Better off spending your time writing to CNN. Maybe instead of a freedom project, you can formulate one to address climate change… Oh, but there’s the Road to Rio… what happened in Rio? more urgent pleas to um define the problem so that parameters could be established so performance indicators could be developed into action plans with achievable goals and targets? yeah… flirting? not the word that I would use but then… apparently I will be one of the ones er how was it? regretting? in 2030? Yeah… filled with regret… because the alternative is a world where so much more would be done but is not because of people like me… who vote Republican… when we have a Democrat controlled Congress and house with numerous state legislatures and governors voting along similar lines but it is all because of obstructionists like me that nothing is being done about this urgent problem and where the hell is Al Gore these days? But the accomplishment of which I am most proud is getting countries like Russia, China, Japan, India, South Africa, Brazil and even some in the EU itself and incredibly CANADA to do what I want. Is there no end to how far we Republicans can stymie hope and change?


#239

Or what?

In 1997, the US was the only nation who would not sign onto a Kyoto type accord to reduce CO2. Fast forward 15 years and the climate change issue has become ever so much more serious and the success of Kyoto type accords or Treaties has changed how exactly to fit these dire new realities? I think that there has already been an end to his right here but… if you want to keep flirting… I am sure that there are still well-meaning types out there who will continue to fund your types of concerns… to “make a difference, a positive difference.” Better off spending your time writing to CNN. Maybe instead of a freedom project, you can formulate one to address climate change… Oh, but there’s the Road to Rio… what happened in Rio? more urgent pleas to um define the problem so that parameters could be established so performance indicators could be developed into action plans with achievable goals and targets? yeah… flirting? not the word that I would use but then… apparently I will be one of the ones er how was it? regretting? in 2030? Yeah… filled with regret… because the alternative is a world where so much more would be done but is not because of people like me… who vote Republican… when we have a Democrat controlled Congress and house with numerous state legislatures and governors voting along similar lines but it is all because of obstructionists like me that nothing is being done about this urgent problem and where the hell is Al Gore these days? But the accomplishment of which I am most proud is getting countries like Russia, China, Japan, India, South Africa, Brazil and even some in the EU itself and incredibly CANADA to do what I want. Is there no end to how far we Republicans can stymie hope and change?[/quote]

Great.
Not only do you dress like my grandma, you talk like her too.

Holy cow I hate you so much.


#240

[quote]Great.
Not only do you dress like my grandma, you talk like her too.

Holy cow I hate you so much.[/quote]

Why because even though your grandmother ain’t the boss of you, she still is? So, you hate me because “holy cow” I have this amazing ability to get Democrats and Socialists and Third Worldists to vote against urgent funding for climate change efforts even though I nor any of my cohorts control any levers of power? Yeah… must be hateful… must fill one with rage to see someone who has spouted off against the global warming hysterics for years and then… when he and his party are finally out of power… when the whole world is your oyster and you can finally do something about all these urgent matters… not only nothing but worse… a retraction on the lukewarm commitments to the even weaker commitments made earlier… God… Yes, I must be… because how else can we explain my amazing powers?