Coming to Taiwan

I suggested moving to tianmu, my gfs dad replied with ‘why don’t you just move to danshui then!’

Danshui is the bench mark for being miles out of taipei! which is funny, if i could choose i wouldn’t mind living around that area.

Do a Google search for “second tier American cities” or “second tier European cities”. People use this term, even if it’s not formal.

I’m here in Taiwan for business and will probably be here another 1-2 years. I almost certainly won’t be going “home” to the US. I enjoy living and doing business abroad.

I actually like Taiwan a lot, and will certainly come back to visit. It’s a fascinating and underrated place, and this is an interesting time to be here. Just because I think the housing here sucks compared to many other places doesn’t mean I think everything here sucks.

If you really really love Taiwan, are stuck here, etc., obviously, it doesn’t really matter that other places have a wider selection of decent housing stock at a higher “CP value”, but if you have other options, the quality, selection and CP value of housing are all factors to be considered when choosing where to locate.

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Most countries in Europe, Asia and Africa do not give birthright citizenship; almost all countries in the Americas do.

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Times change. In the old days kids of foreigners on work permits/missionary permits were only allowed into schools if there were empty spaces- your children could go to school, but no particular school was bound to accept them, including the one in your neighborhood; you had to hunt up one that would. Most schools were full back then, so sometimes your kids ended up in crappy ones.
Here in Taitung the euphemism used was “have a good baseball team” which meant “a bunch of dirty aborigine kids”|.

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Seems like there should be reciprocity, anyway.

But my original point in the other thread was that Taiwan is not the land of milk and honey for young USians. Clearly, it has many great aspects, or I would not have lived there so long or pined away for it after leaving. But, as an English teacher, you have to work to get ahead to the same extent as the average college grad in the US would. Sure, it is a good wage by local standards. But unless you have an above-average teacher salary, work long hours, or are very frugal, you probably are not saving much for retirement. And you are generally not contributing to Social Security or getting a company match on retirement contributions. Here (US), savings can be almost automatic, for most people, through payroll deductions.

That was a bit of a ramble. Anyway, point taken that Taiwan is not alone in not recognizing birthrate citizenship or making people renounce their original citizenship if they want to become Taiwan citizens. Both are unattractive policies for immigrants, but hardly unique to Taiwan.

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Just FYI about renting in Taipei (not NTC/Greater Taipei). I spent around 2 months (in late 2020) looking for a modern 1BR/2BR for less than 30k NTD but it just did not exist. I spent around 2-3 hours daily on 591 and the FB groups, and also talked to several local and expat agents. I only found a couple of cramped lofts (similar to the one posted above) - I am > 185cm so I really didn’t want to choose them.

Taipei rent can be comparable to a lot of the US if you want the same square footage and quality. I’d prefer to rent a room+bathroom in a very nice shared apartment than rent a studio for 15k in Taipei tbh. Alternatively even living in NTC, Sanchong, Tamsui etc is better.

Try the other way around, a 350 USD apartment in the US that comes close to an $11 K in Taiwan?

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At the lower end you get more, but at the higher end you get about the same or maybe even lesser

Not really, though I’d point out that in Taipei, $11,000 basically gets you a “room” with a bed and bathroom, sometimes windowless. This type of inventory doesn’t really exist in major US cities for a variety of reasons. Generally, Americans who only have a few hundred bucks to spare will either live with roommates or family.

While having roommates can suck and doesn’t lend itself to an independent life, I’d guess for many people, not having a kitchen, living room, etc. is a worse trade off.

Look at what $11,000 to $15,000 gets you in Malaysia, Vietnam, Thailand, etc., even in major cities like Kuala Lumpur and HCMC. There’s a reason expats who want to live on the cheap aren’t flocking to Taiwan. The CP value just isn’t that compelling even at the low end of the housing market.

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You’re not looking in the right areas if you think this inventory doesn’t exist in major US cities. The difference is that they aren’t necessarily called “apartments”. Most of these properties are run down motels that offer anything from hourly, daily, weekly or monthly rates. I have known many people who only have a few hundred bucks to spare that have lived in these accommodations because they can’t scrape together enough to pay for a security deposit on a real apartment.

The motels you’re referring to are not at all comparable.

The “rooms” in Taiwan are actually owned by individuals who rent them out, usually on standard lease terms (security deposit, 1 year lease term, etc.). Young people and lower-income older people who don’t own a place commonly rent these.

If you meet a working class person in Taiwan and they live in an 8 ping “room” , you think nothing of it. If you meet a similarly situated person in the US who is renting a motel room, you’d probably take note because it’s nowhere as common.

As I said, in the US, people who can’t afford their own place usually have roommates or live with family. The vast majority of them don’t rent motel rooms.

We obviously hang out in different circles. I have worked with many people that lived in these motels. It isn’t as uncommon as you think. These motels are everywhere in the “lower class” neighborhoods because many people need them as the only low cost accommodation available.

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This is so true. I am so surprised how much Taiwanese people are willing to pay for coffee and also Bed and Breakfasts compared to the salaries they earn.

I am sure there are people who make more in other industries, but even a senior software engineer makes max (from what I have heard) 4 - 5,000 US dollars a month. Mean is probably more like under 3k, and people will pay the same price if not more for living accommodations while traveling, (some) coffee shops, food, and alcohol.

They pay a lot for hotels too. Easily 5, 6k a night at popular times. Even more at very popular locations and during holidays.
One of the big relative costs is quality food I.e. groceries.

Contract to what is popular opinion I think there’s a very big income gap in Taiwan with 1% of families being super rich (those that own those public companies and the banks) , then a very significant wedge of rich families , perhaps 10% (owning multiple properties and land and businesses ) , then maybe 10-20% comfortably middle class (engineers managers pick servants ), 20% striving lower middle and then maybe 30% really just eking by year by year , saving their pennies.

But the top maybe 30% of a huge amount of disposable income. That’s why you see a lot of businesses focusing on the high end and the low end and not so much in the middle.

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I do agree with this, but I still expensive cars in front of NT$100 meal place here in Southern Taiwan so sometimes wonder they are rich or just buy a nice car ha. This city seems more middle class though than Taipei so maybe a regional difference.

Everywhere you can see really expensive cars nowadays.