Comparing used bikes

Thanks Joe.

Thanks joesax for sharing all your insights. I used to ride sportbikes before, I had a Honda CBR600 in the US, and back in Germany my Yamaha RD350 (RZ in nothern america) is still waiting for me. I bet the FZ is similar to the RD, so at least I know what kind of riding to expect. I might still tend to the SR though, because it is less flashy, and I won’t have to worry about getting it stolen.

I looked at the images of trapjaw’s bike. At least on Yahoo it seems to be in mint condition. I will have to take a look at it to get an idea what I am dealing with. But it looks more like a bike that I might need to worry about when I park it on the street. Something to consider as well.

I made a mistake in my above post, Trapjaw’s bike isn’t a FZ, it’s a FZR. At 29 000 I thought it was well priced. I saw many worse looking ones for as much as 40k and in the same condition for up to 45k in shops. Makes me wonder if bikes are cheaper in Tapei from what you wrote Joesax because even FZs are quite expensive here in second hand shops. Cheaper than FZRs but not by much. From what I’ve seen around Kaohsiung, Trapjaw’s bike is a good buy IMO.[quote]I bet the FZ is similar to the Rd…[/quote]The RD is two strokes I believe and the FZ is four strokes. You’ll find the FZ slower, even sluggish compared to the RD. I wouldn’t be surprised if despite half the engine size the FZ was heavier as well. Quite a different feel really. The RD is a mean little bike while the FZ is too big and heavy for such a small engine. If you haven’t driven one yet, you’ll be disappointed. The NSR is something that would feel a lot more like the RD I think.

Jd, My best recommendation for you if you will buy an older bike is to locate the bikes that interests you and then bring someone along who knows a bit about mecanic if you can. Buying a used bike is always a gamble, even more so if you don’t know much about bikes. All worth it though, in the end I don’t doubt you’ll enjoy the ride. :happybiker:

bobepine

[quote=“ratlung”]…back in Germany my Yamaha RD350 (RZ in nothern America) is still waiting for me. I bet the FZ is similar to the Rd, so at least I know what kind of riding to expect. I might still tend to the SR though, because it is less flashy, and I won’t have to worry about getting it stolen.[/quote]I am sorry but to be blunt you will be hugely disappointed if you are expecting the FZR to be anything like the RD. The RD has around 40hp compared to the FZR’s around 14. In addition the RD’s saddle looks a fair bit more comfortable than the FZR’s.

[quote=“joesax”]I looked at the images of trapjaw’s bike. At least on Yahoo it seems to be in mint condition. I will have to take a look at it to get an idea what I am dealing with. But it looks more like a bike that I might need to worry about when I park it on the street. Something to consider as well.[/quote]I don’t think you need to worry too much about people stealing an FZR. They are not really worth that much and I have heard that thieves tend to go for popular, new scooters. Whatever you end up buying, use a decent lock and you should be OK. I think it also helps if you’re not too conscientious about cleaning up minor scratches etc.

[quote=“bobepine”]I made a mistake in my above post, Trapjaw’s bike isn’t a FZ, it’s a FZR. At 29 000 I thought it was well priced. I saw many worse looking ones for as much as 40k and in the same condition for up to 45k in shops. Makes me wonder if bikes are cheaper in Tapei from what you wrote Joesax because even FZs are quite expensive here in second hand shops. Cheaper than FZRs but not by much. From what I’ve seen around Kaohsiung, Trapjaw’s bike is a good buy IMO.[/quote]Well, I’m sure Trapjaw’s bike is a good one. But the general prices you mention – 40k and above – seem excessive. While the FZR is the newer model I feel it offers little over the FZ. Dual front discs are inadequate compensation for the painful riding position and the even heavier steering. At least on a real sport bike you can count on some wind pressure to take the load off your wrists. On an FZ/FZR150 you can’t really get fast enough for that to happen!

[quote=“bobepine”]The NSR is something that would feel a lot more like the Rd I think.[/quote]The NSR would be an idea though I believe it’s getting more difficult to find one in good condition. My mechanic says the engines are finicky and fragile. They’re also quite a bit pricier than the FZs/FZRs.

The reason I like the SR150 is that it does not try to be something that it is not. It is reliable and sturdy but nicer than the FZs/FZRs around town because it is lighter, has a lower centre of gravity and does not have the annoying flat spot that the FZ150 engine has. It is on a different planet to something like the RD350 but at least it will get you around Taiwan without trouble and in reasonable comfort.

The Xings, Huskys etc. do a similar job but with greater comfort and a front disc brake. And it seems from what Sandman and others have said that the Yamaha Dragfire is the best of these mini-cruisers, with a bit more power and a better build quality, although it also costs more.

[quote=“jdsmith”]You knowledgable biker types wanna give the whatforrundown on these bikes, please?

tw.f3.page.bid.yahoo.com/tw/auction/c18831624 Is this Dangermouse’s bike?[/quote]

Despite the Dragfire decal on the tank, this is a Kymco Zing. I don’t know if DM rides a Zing with silly decal on the tank or if he’s selling it on Yahoo. :wink:

This is a Kymco Custom 150. Much higher seat and clearance than the Zing.

[quote=“jdsmith”]http://tw.f4.page.bid.yahoo.com/tw/auction/d14690148 zing?

tw.f3.page.bid.yahoo.com/tw/auction/c18440337 zing too?[/quote]

Yes and yes.

Cheers

kamiwaza

OK, given that you can’t see or hear or ride these bikes, let me ask a general question

10yr old dragfire or 10 year old zing?

Price is not all that different, but which bike would be in better condition IYHO? I’ve heard the dragfire is built better, so triple checking here.

That probably sounds about right. There is nothing comparable to a mean, powerfull, high-rev, 2-stroke engine. :smiling_imp: I love my RD and I wish you were here :frowning: (Why is there no crying Emoticon? ). In my above post I was more refering to the riding postion, which looks similar on the FZR as on the RD.

Actually my RD350 had 63hp, it was the YVPS model. So I don’t expect any 150 4-stroke to be as powerfull as a 350cc 2-stroke. But you are right about the saddle. Taking a closer look at it, it does look more uncomfortable than the RD350 saddle, it has been a while (5 years), so my memory is not that clear anymore.

As I do enjoy 2-stroke engines on a bike, I don’t trust them as much as I would a 4-stroke engine. And I still remember the painful sunny afternoons, that I spend working on the RD rather than riding it. So I am probably looking for a 4-stroke bike since my spare time is limited and I rather ride it than bring it to the mechanic, so I think the NSR, as it is a nice bike, is probably not the right one for me. Plus I don’t want to add too much blue smoke to the already emission filled air.

So it will probably be a SR150 rather than a pig dressed as a race-horse (as a dear old friend would say).

[quote=“jdsmith”]OK, given that you can’t see or hear or ride these bikes, let me ask a general question

10yr old dragfire or 10 year old zing?

Price is not all that different, but which bike would be in better condition IYHO? I’ve heard the dragfire is built better, so triple checking here.[/quote]Well, all other things being equal, the Dragfire I guess.

It’s so hard to say anything about the condition of a ten-year-old bike. Any motor vehicle should have regular oil changes, minor and major services and new parts when needed. The degree to which this is done determines its condition.

But perhaps as the Dragfire is normally pricier and arguably better made, the owner will have taken good care of it.

Sandman, how easy is it to get Dragfire parts? Are new parts still available?

For Ratlung, the Yamaha TW page on the SR150;
yamaha-motor.com.tw/motor/motor_SR.htm

[quote=“jdsmith”]OK, given that you can’t see or hear or ride these bikes, let me ask a general question

10yr old dragfire or 10 year old zing?

Price is not all that different, but which bike would be in better condition IYHO? I’ve heard the dragfire is built better, so triple checking here.[/quote]

My NT2:

I’d probably go for the Dragfire. The Zing has a pushrod engine; I believe the Dragfire is OHC though Sandy might like to confirm that. Let’s face it: pushrod is seriously old technology, as opposed to the Dragfire engine which is just old technology.

However, I’m not convinced about the “price is not all that different”. A Zing should be a lot cheaper than a Dragfire of similar age and condition. If you know where to get such cheap Dragfires let me know; otherwise I think the Zings you’re looking at are too expensive.

Further, Zings are plentiful, parts are cheap. A Dragfire is a little more rare and may be more attractive to theives (though I doubt it) and maybe a little more difficult for parts etc. The Zing is also a bit lighter (I think) and I’ve been told that the pushrod engine spins up a little faster.

I’m actually considering buying a Zing right now. I’m curious as to the prices of the bikes you’ve been looking at, jd, and where they are.

Cheers

kamiwaza

[quote=“kamiwaza”][quote=“jdsmith”]OK, given that you can’t see or hear or ride these bikes, let me ask a general question

10yr old dragfire or 10 year old zing?

Price is not all that different, but which bike would be in better condition IYHO? I’ve heard the dragfire is built better, so triple checking here.[/quote]

My NT2:

I’d probably go for the Dragfire. The Zing has a pushrod engine; I believe the Dragfire is OHC though Sandy might like to confirm that. Let’s face it: pushrod is seriously old technology, as opposed to the Dragfire engine which is just old technology.

However, I’m not convinced about the “price is not all that different”. A Zing should be a lot cheaper than a Dragfire of similar age and condition. If you know where to get such cheap Dragfires let me know; otherwise I think the Zings you’re looking at are too expensive.

Further, Zings are plentiful, parts are cheap. A Dragfire is a little more rare and may be more attractive to theives (though I doubt it) and maybe a little more difficult for parts etc. The Zing is also a bit lighter (I think) and I’ve been told that the pushrod engine spins up a little faster.

I’m actually considering buying a Zing right now. I’m curious as to the prices of the bikes you’ve been looking at, jd, and where they are.

Cheers

kamiwaza[/quote]

Price is not too different in that it is about 10k difference, 15/18 for the 10yr old zing to 22-25k for the 10 yr old DF. But I saw a 6 yr old DF for 30 online which confused me.

The zings look sweet, and I’m trying NOT to consider looks too much. My son looks at it and says, “YEAH baby!” and I agree. But the DFs I have seen look pretty sweet too, and if they have a better engine design, I’ll probably go with it.

The Zings I have seen are online on the yahoo links listed above. The DFs…well, I’ll tell you in a week or so…or sooner. :smiling_imp:

Hmmm… Are you actually in Ying Ge? Where will you be buying? Taipei? PM me if you wanna go bike shopping together. If I end up buying a Zing maybe we can race :sunglasses: … What the hell we can race anyway :smiling_imp:. Seriously I’d love to make a comparison between the bikes.

I think 30 large for a 6 year old DF is not too bad, though it should be in awesome condition.

One more thing: if we don’t make it to go shopping together, and you’re planning on buying from a dealer, make sure you some kind of warranty. Naturally there is a difference in price so make sure you get more out of a dealer. Make he guarantee to fix or replace anything that goes wrong. This should save you in case you buy a lemon.

Cheers

kamiwaza

[quote=“kamiwaza”]Hmmm… Are you actually in Ying Ge? Where will you be buying? Taipei? PM me if you wanna go bike shopping together. If I end up buying a Zing maybe we can race :sunglasses: … What the hell we can race anyway :smiling_imp:. Seriously I’d love to make a comparison between the bikes.

I think 30 large for a 6 year old DF is not too bad, though it should be in awesome condition.

One more thing: if we don’t make it to go shopping together, and you’re planning on buying from a dealer, make sure you some kind of warranty. Naturally there is a difference in price so make sure you get more out of a dealer. Make he guarantee to fix or replace anything that goes wrong. This should save you in case you buy a lemon.

Cheers

kamiwaza[/quote]

I am actually in Yingge. The DFs I saw were in Hsin Chuang. I’ll probably go back tomorrow and see if they’re still there. The zings, like I said, are very nice, but I’d just as soon go with the better quality, while I can affford it, and put a few thousand more into it, fine tuning and replacing what needs replacing.

And YES! I was thinking today how I will demand a warranty from the dealer. lol

Hope to meet up with you one of these days.

jds

Well actually my gf lives in Xinzhuang, I dunno, if you want we can go take a look tomorrow, I’d be interested in checking out the DFs… unless of course you’d rather not :raspberry: . Let me know man.

(Btw how long does it take to get from Yingge to Xinzhuang? Curious.)

Cheers

kamiwaza

Would anybody please comment on those SR-150’s that I found on
yahoo? There aren’t many out there. Any other thoughts where I might
want to look? I live by Linkou, so Taoyuan or Taipei area would be fine.

tw.f4.page.bid.yahoo.com/tw/auction/d14892620

tw.f2.page.bid.yahoo.com/tw/auction/b22338013

And YES! I was thinking today how I will demand a warranty from the dealer. lol[/quote]I don’t think you will be able to get a full warranty. Not for major parts replacement anyway. I once got a new clutch on warranty but was told by many people that this is unusual. Rather than counting on the warranty (from a dealer who may or may not be a good mechanic), it would be better to beat the price down a bit. Of course you’ll still get some kind of a warranty – just don’t expect it to cover too much.

I still think you need to find out how easy it is to get Dragfire parts. Does anyone know about this? I rarely see Dragfires around, in Taichung anyway.

[quote=“ratlung”]Would anybody please comment on those SR-150’s that I found on
yahoo?[/quote]I’m sending you a PM. One more general comment about this – though I think the SR150s are strong and reliable, there are also other options for 4-stroke 150/125s. There’s the Hartford HD (street) or VR (dual-sport) series, the SYM Legend and the Kymco KTR150. All of these bikes are fairly recent and it may be more cost-effective and less hassle in the long run to buy new rather than second-hand.

The build quality on the Hartfords may be improving and they look nice.

The SYM Legends have small saddles and only a 125 engine. My friend has one and it’s taken him on a number of cross-island trips with no problems. Not very comfortable for passengers though.

The KTR also looks a bit uncomfy for passengers but it has a 150 engine with four valves – perhaps the most powerful of the bunch.

I will have to take a look at those other motorbikes you mentioned, although I trust the Yamaha the most, at least just judging from Yamaha’s reputation, but I might be wrong.

I am not sure if I need a brand new motorcycle, I was hoping to get something below NT$ 20.000, although even for a used bike especially only a 150cc that is pretty expensive. I won’t stay in Taiwan forever, and it seems that a new bike just drops in value too much, especially in the first couple of months, to justify such a move for myself.

I just had a look at a Hartford VR 150 H, looks nice, where are those made?

Thanks for mentioning all the other options, I will see if I can find anything on yahoo.

Joesax asked me to comment on how easy it is to get Dragfire parts but I’m afraid I don’t know as the only things I’ve replaced are the chain and air filter. Neither was a problem to get.
Beware though if the bike has ape hanger handlebars as finding long enough throttle and clutch cables can be a problem.

And YES! I was thinking today how I will demand a warranty from the dealer. lol[/quote]I don’t think you will be able to get a full warranty. Not for major parts replacement anyway. I once got a new clutch on warranty but was told by many people that this is unusual. Rather than counting on the warranty (from a dealer who may or may not be a good mechanic), it would be better to beat the price down a bit. Of course you’ll still get some kind of a warranty – just don’t expect it to cover too much.

I still think you need to find out how easy it is to get Dragfire parts. Does anyone know about this? I rarely see Dragfires around, in Taichung anyway.[/quote]

Sadly, upon closer inspection, the Dragfires I saw, were “Dragfires” as in Kymco’s with a DF sticker. Dicks! :fume:

Anyway, the guy DID say though that they would offer a 1 year warrenty for engine problems. I think I’m through with this place though, as the price she gave me on the first day and the price He gave me this time, were vastly different.

So, back to the drawing board. Has anyone bought a bike from the yahoo/ebay board mentioned on page one? There are some nicer looking Zings there for 15-25k.