Concern over referendum

Discussion Open Forum
1

My brother, who lives back in California, sent me this email this morning. I thought my reply might be of interest or amusement.
take care,
Brian

My brother writes:

Hey Baby Bro,
The news over here is making it sound like your Pres Chen is doing an awful lot of saber rattling … and it sounds like the mainlanders are matching the rhetoric
Do you feel safe ?
Bro

And my response is:

Hey Bro,
No worries on all this. It is pre-election hype that seems to have gotten picked up by the American press services.

Here is the deal. We got presidential elections in March. It has become apparent that our current president-whom I refer to as Grease Ball in honor of the tons of Brycream he uses to hold his hair together-has not done a damn thing for this country; well, except to incite racial and political divisions, renege on every promise he ever made and prove that what I said years ago (the DPP is the KMT without the money or brains) is true.

Taiwans voters are not the smartest kids in class but even they realize that Chen has done nothing and Chen starts to slip in the wildly inaccurate and biased polls that are conducted here on Fantasy Island.

Chens solution is to distract the local electorate with some smoke and mirrors about Peoples Democracy and Referendums. The whole thing is a crack up because:
a.the right to referendums has been in the ROC Constitution since about 1920
b.anyone with any brains or experience in Taiwan knows that offering any referendum decisions to the Taiwanese public is an utter waste of time for a whole variety of reasons not the least of which is the fact that most Taiwanese simply sell their votes to whoever asks them first (as long as the asking is backed up with a red envelope- standard price for a vote is somewhere between 500 to 1000 NT, i.e. about $20 to $40 real dollars)

So Grease Ball starts yammering on about that. They pass a referendum law which if you look at it closely basically says Empty Show Referendums Are Legal as Long as They are Limited to Meaningless Issues. (I summarize the law to save you the trouble, since you are my brother I will waive my normal fee).

Then the Cross Straits Blues Song begins. It is a duet with a chorus. Here is the lyrics:

Taiwan Side (sung in a harsh blues whine):
Oh, oh, we just want to bee freeee, and irresponsible and Bully Boy China jaaaaams us. booooooooohooooooooobooooooohooooooo

PRC Side (in harsh rap music tones)
Hey you fools, get outta line, we fu*k you up, up, up, yo, yo.

Then the chorus (played by the international press on slow news days) chimes in with:
Oh its bad, oh its tense
What to do?
Lets sit on the fence.

Okay so my lyric writing needs work.

Bottom line is, to steal from Shakespeare, it is much ado about nothing as both side of the strait know the tune by heart. And like 99% of what Chinese and Taiwanese do, it is nothing but hype.

You asked if I felt safe, sure I am not worried about a Winter rain of PRC missiles. Remember if they ever really decide to get tough with Taiwan what they will do is simply conduct a naval blockade, cut the phone and internet lines, which almost all now run through china anyway; and after a day or two of that Taiwan will return to the Motherland.

If you want to say a prayer for me, pray for me each time I gotta ride in a Taiwanese cab. As the Ministry of Transportation proudly boast, Taiwan has an outstandingly high traffic fatality rate, among the highest in Asia!

Take care,
Brian

2

I think Brian’s summed it up quite well. It was much hairier when Lee Teng-hui was getting elected because it was kind of an unknown quantity. Now we know the procedure. They’re just kids: it’ll all blow over.

3

Having sat directly behind A-Bian in the cinema, I can confirm that.

4

For all of the warts of President Chen, there is one thing that would make me vote for him if I could: At least the goddamn KMT (Kill More Taiwanese) isn’t in power! :imp:

5

Ummm. Taiwan should be very careful about dealing with China. They don’t know for sure if America will step in and help. If the Chinese are quick about neutralizing the Taiwanese then America would not be able to do much. America would throw up its hands say that’s too bad and life would probably go on. America needs China more than Taiwan. I think the American gov’t would be happy to see the Taiwan problem go away.

Andy

6

a friend of mine in Hong Kong who recently visited Taiwan to see what all the fuss was about here, wrote to me:

“Formosa, tell that guy Kennedy that he is right about the cabs; it’s outrageous that they don’t keep the
rear
seat belts in working order.”

Kennedy: over to you. Great post and right on!

As for the enter reefer madness reeferendum issue, I think, having thought about this alot, that the end is nigh. Near. Not the end of the world, but the end of the world, our safe little world here, as we knew it. China is not, repeat NOT, going to back down on this, and it holds all the cards. Taiwan holds nothing, but the ballast of dear goodman Chen, who, naive as he is, still thinks he can win. But Goliath aint about the be had by David yet.

Watch: there will be major showdown in mid March, possibly missiles lobbed once again in our direction. No deaths, but lots of dead ends, so to speak. We are on for the ride of our lifetimes, and Chen is leading the charge. Abandon all faith, ye of little independence-minded issues.

This one is going to explode in our faces. Again, do not panic. No deaths. But we lose, CHina wins. Bigtime.

And Lien wins the election with Soong. For a song.

7

Until I clicked, I thought the title of this thread was “Brother’s concern over reefer”

8

yeah…honestly…a little ‘refer’ now and then never hurt anyone…

9

If you want Taiwan to become part of China, then why don’t you just move there!!! If you think life can / will be better after KMT are in da house, THINK AGAIN!

Tons of Taiwanese-American heads back to Taiwan just for election, why is that? Because they still care about their county and politics. I know my parent will, and a few of their friends will do so as well. The government is corrupted for more than 50 yrs and you can’t make it better in just one day, let along the 4 yrs. Chen got caught in the bad economy just like everybody else in the world. HE just happened to be in the seat while it happened, not his fault. Give him few more yrs and he will turn it around.

miaka and her 2 cents, 3 nickels, 4 dimes, 5 dollars,…

10

A Taiwanese friend of mine pointed out the following curious facts:

  1. Those Taiwanese voters who are in favor of unification with the Mainland don’t want to live in the Mainland;
  2. Those Taiwanese voters who are in favor of independence don’t want to serve in the military.

I guess this just goes to show that the Taiwanese electorate is very well informed, deep thinking, educated, and logical (in a non-western sort of way).

11

I am always very impressed with people who care so deeply about their country that they bugger off overseas. I take my hat of to those caring sharing Taiwanese in the US who hide behind their US citizenship, but come to Taiwan to vote. That’s true democracy in action - casting a vote in a country you couldn’t wait to get out of, and have no intention of living in. Two Cheers !

12

You don’t vote in your elections then? I always vote in mine, but luckily enough we can cast absentee ballots. If I had to fly home I wouldn’t vote.

Brian

13

[quote]Taiwan should be very careful about dealing with China. They don’t know for sure if America will step in and help. If the Chinese are quick about neutralizing the Taiwanese then America would not be able to do much. America would throw up its hands say that’s too bad and life would probably go on. America needs China more than Taiwan. I think the American gov’t would be happy to see the Taiwan problem go away.

Andy[/quote]
When has China ever done anything quick. You have a point however the only way for China to be successful in neutralizing the Taiwanese defenses is a lightening fast and accurate surprise attack.
Unfortunately China has the largest slave army on the planet. They are probably about as effective as the R.O.C. slave army only they are so big that it would take 100 years just to do a dress inspection of them all much less get the bulk of them onto boats across the straights under hostile fire from everywhere.
China launching an attack on Taiwan would not make the Taiwan problem go away, even if they were successful. It would be the downfall of the current regime in the PRC.

14

maybe you should find out why they had become a US citizen than anything. Few of them went to US for the better oppournity, some went for the kids (to have an better education) and few went because of some politicals reason. Some of them went to US because their life were threaten by the goverment (KMT) because they supported the independence of Taiwan and started a freedom newspaper (other stuff too) Some of them are in Japan and other countries as well, not just the US.

As long as you dont have a Taiwanese Passport, then you are safe in Taiwan. Why?? Well, go ask the Chinese Government and they can / will give you a better answer. So even if China take over Taiwan, you guys will have nothing to worry about.

15

maybe you should find out why they had become a US citizen than anything. Few of them went to US for the better oppournity, some went for the kids (to have an better education) and few went because of some politicals reason. Some of them went to US because their life were threaten by the goverment (KMT) because they supported the independence of Taiwan and started a freedom newspaper (other stuff too) Some of them are in Japan and other countries as well, not just the US.

As long as you dont have a Taiwanese Passport, then you are safe in Taiwan. Why?? Well, go ask the Chinese Government and they can / will give you a better answer. So even if China take over Taiwan, you guys will have nothing to worry about.[/quote]

I agree with Hexuan on this one. These people are making decisions that directly affect the lives of people who actually live here. We have to live with the consequences of their decisions, while they can bugger off back overseas where they have set up their lives.

And the days of oppression of the DPP are in the past, yet I don’t see these people moving back here in droves. I simply can’t take the opinions of such people that seriously.

16

You don’t vote in your elections then? I always vote in mine, but luckily enough we can cast absentee ballots. If I had to fly home I wouldn’t vote.

Brian[/quote]

You’re talking about two different things. You are talking about an expat voting whilst he is temporarily abroad. I am talking about people who leave their country of origin, emigrate, adopt the citizenship of their new country, but still seek to interfere in the politics of their country of origin, all the while knowing that they can support without fear policies which are beneficial to them personally, but may have a very negative impact on the poor sods left behind.

Democracy should be about the people who actually live in the country deciding what goes on there. Which is why I think foreigners permanently settled here should be given the vote.

Don’t you find it a bit ironic that you have political influence in a country you don’t live in, but can do nothing to affect the politics of the country in which you do live ?

Of course in my statement above I was talking not about Taiwanese with United States citizenship who reside in Taiwan and who use the US passport as a passport of convenience (I can’t say I blame them); I was responding to the original suggestion that US-naturalised Taiwanese now resident in the US come back here merely to vote and then return to the safety of the US. Are we to believe they spend all that money for altruistic reasons ? For the betterment and future of their comrades left behind ?! :laughing:

17

Is it legal for American citizens to vote in foreign elections?

18

Not unless they have two passports (dual citizenship).

The problem is that many non-citizens legally (or illegally) residing in America cast their votes in elections. Yes, that is illegal, but there are widespread cases of aliens voting in places like California and Florida. Like I said, it would have made life conditions much more pleasant for both countries if the U.S. had annexed all instead of just half of Mexico when we had the chance.

19

It is interesting how the Washington Post newspaper in the USA refers to Taiwan as both a nation and a country here:

"A senior administration official, briefing reporters in advance of Wen’s meeting with President Bush today, said the administration had decided to drop a policy known as “strategic ambiguity” – declining to say how it would respond to efforts by either *nation to change Taiwan’s status. Instead, the official said, actions by both *countries had forced the administration to spell out more clearly what it thinks each nation should do to maintain stability in the Taiwan straits.

And yet editorially it says Taiwan should not vote on or proclaim independence. But how can a nation NOT be independent? This Alice in Wonderland world of diplospeak is amazing. So what is Taiwan if not a nation? And so why is China whining again?

BULLY BULLY BULLY!

20

precisely, bloody spot on comment… friends of my wife’s family do just that, for exactly the reasons you mentioned and they still come across with this “well it’s the least we can do for the little people” BS attitude… i do not accept that even people who were once perhaps genuinely threatened due to their pro democratic stance, would be in any tangible danger should they return to taiwan now… it’s just a case of the grass being much greener in the US or wherever they emigrated to… or the widely known chinese version