Interesting article in the Jerusalem Post.
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1154525881393&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull
[quote]Bearden, a staunch advocate for dialogue, even sees the possibility for Israeli dialogue with Iran — although the country is a prime backer of Hezbollah and its leader, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, has repeatedly called for the destruction of Israel.
Still, those on the more “realist side” in Israeli politics, Bearden says, “are going to start saying, ‘We need to talk with Iran; we need to talk with Syria.’ But also, I can guarantee you, sooner or later they’re going to want to talk with Hezbollah and Hamas.” Hamas has already proven its political prowess, winning the
Palestinian Authority general election in January.
The extent to which the landscape in the Middle East has been shaken is just beginning to emerge. But Israel’s fight against Hezbollah, the intent of which was greater security, may have left the country even more on the defensive.[/quote]
hotzone.yahoo.com/b/hotzone/blogs8692
A former CIA official, who now works for an organization that promotes dialogue, believes that engaging the two sides in dialogue is the way to lasting peace. This, as opposed to Forumosa’s armchair generals, who like to see destruction rain down upon other people.
[quote=“TainanCowboy”]
[quote]The Jihadi Civilians
by Alamgir Hussain, 16 August, 2006
The 12th July misadventure of the Lebanese Islamist Hezbollah militants to attack a military outpost inside Israeli territory killing three soldiers and kidnapping two of them resulted in Israel’s massive military operation, mainly bombings, in Lebanon. During this military conflict, the major news headline and commentary appeared in the media worldwide centered on Israel’s indiscriminate and deliberate targeting of the civilians. Even the UN secretary general Koffi Annan suggested that certain Israeli bombings were deliberate targeting of nonmilitary entities.
As per report by Associated Press on 9th of August, 689 people died on the Lebanese side, the majority being the civilians as claimed by the Lebanese government. On the other hand, the Israeli side has claimed that they killed about 530 Hezbollah guerrillas, although the militant groups conceded the loss of only a handful of its members. Given the way Hezbollah operates hiding amongst the civilians and using them as shields; it is very difficult to determine who is militant and who is not, amongst those who died. Thus, the correct ratio of the civilian to militant death would be difficult to establish.
Even if we agree that there were a high proportion of civilian deaths as compared to the militants, the nature of these alleged civilians requires a careful analysis. The civilians in South Lebanon and those in West Bank and Gaza cannot be equated with the civilians in the traditional sense of it. In other words, the nature and attitude of civilians on the Israeli side and those on the Lebanese side differed significantly.
The military outposts on the Israeli side are situated far off from the civilian population and an opponent can destroy the entire Israeli military without harming civilians. On the Lebanese side, the militants have created their networks and guerrilla outposts scattered amongst the civilians and the civilians are in general quite supportive of such an arrangement. Therefore, there is no way to destroy the Hezbollah militia without causing casualties to the civilians.
Next, when the Israeli authority asked their civilian in Northern Israel to hide in bunkers or evacuate to safer places, they quickly obliged in order to avoid being the target of the Hezbollah rockets and missiles. But the Lebanese civilians not only willingly harbor the militants, many of them also would not move out from the area when the Israel military was repeatedly asking them to evacuate. Their unwillingness to evacuate stems from the conviction to support their Jihadi militant brothers at this point of crisis. They know their deaths at the Israeli attacks would bring them the certification of martyrdom and a ticket for straight landing in heaven. They further know that their death of martyrdom would create worldwide media outcry and condemnation of Israel in the name of civilian murder which would help the fight of the Hezbollah Jihadists. This is their strategy of civilian Jihad.
Regarding the so-called civilians of the Shiite-dominated South Lebanon and those of the West Bank and Gaza, another salient point requires a special mention. When the UN conducted the first truly democratic free-and-fair elections in Lebanon and Palestine, these alleged civilians overwhelming voted the Hamas and Hezbollah militants, who have pledged to destroy the Israeli state, as their representatives. They chose these militants groups because the latter can fulfill their own aspiration to destroy the Israeli state, which remains an overwhelming desire amongst the entire Muslims community of the world. A Bangladeshi author in a well-read Bangla community web-portal wrote [Israel and Middle East]: “As per the holly Quran Israel can never own a land for its own and exactly they don’t have any land of their own. It would be absolutely unjust if any Muslim thinks that Israel has its own land. Because, this view is in conflict with our holy Quran”. Thus, the choosing of the Hezbollah and Hamas terrorist groups by the so-called civilians also display another dimension of their Jihadi conviction against the Jewish state. We frequently hear news-stories of how the so-called civilian mothers in West Bank and Gaza are eager to breed more children in order to contribute them in the Jihadi groups’ suicide-bombing campaign against Israel.
Thus, the so-called civilian in South Lebanon and West Bank and Gaza are not the typical civilians like those on the Israeli side or elsewhere. The can described either as the Jihadi civilians, terrorist civilians or terrorism-supporting civilians. Their Jihad, against the Jewish state of Israel, works at multiple steps. Firstly they will elect these Jihadist militias in democratic elections so that the latter groups can work on fulfilling their desire for the destruction of Israel. Secondly, they will support and harbor these terrorists and let them execute the terrorist activities against the Jewish state sitting or hiding amongst them. Thirdly, they will support the terrorist groups at the time of military conflicts by not leaving the war zones, thereby, forming a civilian human shields hoping that a few casualties of their own would create international outcry over civilian deaths. This will give strategic edge in favor their Jihadi groups whilst they themselves would instantly land in heaven with the ticket of martyrdom.
Israel must take notice of these issues whilst battling the militant groups in Palestine and Lebanon. Treating the unarmed people there, as conventional civilians, would lead to Israel’s sure defeat at the hands of Hamas, Islamic Jihad, Hezbollah and other Islamic terrorist groups. These so-called civilians are the part and parcel of the Jihadi campaigns of these terrorist groups. These civilians are the bloodline and important strategic component of these Jihadi groups. Call them Jihadi civilians, if not the terrorist civilians.
The International community must understand these intricate issues, if they truly want to see a peaceful settlement of the perennial conflict in the Middle East with Israel and Palestine living side-by-side as friendly states. The civilians in Lebanon and West Bank and Gaza, too, can make their own choice for peace by supporting political groups interested in making peace with Israel. They need to throw these Jihadist groups, which seek to destroy the Jewish state, out of their office through ballots when opportunities are presented to them. If not, more blood of the Jihadi civilians is sure to flow with all the familiar outcry and condemnation of Israel’s ruthless killing of the civilians. Israel has little choice, howsoever severe the condemnations be!
islam-watch.org/AlamgirHussa … ilians.htm[/quote][/quote]
I did the math in your link citations and came up with -11 innocent civilians killed in Lebanon. I think everyone owes Israel an apology for unfairly claiming that the tons of U.S. ordnance they rained down on Lebanon for nearly a month actually killed anyone but Hezbollah guerillas. After all, they’re not called “smart bombs” for nothing.
And to be fair, what with all those air raids and what not, industrial activity was down markedly meaning less accidents at work and a surprisingly low road toll. On the balance of things, Lebanon is probably up a few lives.
HG
And to be fair, what with all those air raids and what not, industrial activity was down markedly meaning less accidents at work and a surprisingly low road toll. On the balance of things, Lebanon is probably up a few lives.
HG[/quote]
Indubitably. Please though, “kids”, note the “Do not try this at home” warning message.
After giving TC’s eloqent argument due consideration, I have to agree that the term “henceman” should forthwith be expanded to include “hencewomen,” “hence-children”, “hence-babies” and “hence-oldpeople.”
Heck, maybe we should just keep it simple and shorten it to “hencepeople”