I know people will immediately say “No! Don’t do it!” But I’m starting to consider getting an MA in TESOL since it looks like I’ll be in Taiwan a while (save for the period where I’m getting said MA abroad). How important is it for me that the school be reputable? How important is it for my Taiwanese girlfriend, who is also looking to get a TESOL MA, to get hers from a reputable school?
I get the “White Face Bonus” so it may not be AS important for me, but how about her? I don’t think we’ll have too much trouble getting into some decent programs but cost is also a consideration for us.
I come from a small college town, Winona, MN. There is a university in that town (where I went to for my undergrad) that gives a TESOL MA. It is sooo much cheaper than the U of M and Hamline alternatives, which are also very competitive.
My girlfriend is considering this option but she raised the concern that it’s pretty important in Taiwan to have a respectable degree, and that my school is not a famous school by any means. I don’t want to get her into a bad situation where she has a degree that won’t be respected by her employers.
But my other reaction is this: she already has a job teaching in a cram school. She is not looking for any other kind of job. Wouldn’t a TESOL MA from America, even from a lesser-known school, be a plus that she would hold over 90% of her peers?
Just a thought, and I hope you share yours with me.
First, I think even a small school in the US will be just about as prestigious as a good school in Taiwan for face value. Second, remember that your girlfriend will be paying a much higher tuition than will you, as she’s not a resident. Even you will need to move back home for long enough (usually 6 months) to establish residency before registering, or your going to be hit with higher tuition fees.
Lastly–I wouldn’t advise this for you unless you’re planning to teach ESL for a LONG time and in places other than Taiwan. It will be almost usless to you if and when you move back home. However, you could get an MA in something that WILL be useful if you move back home and that will still help you in Taiwan if you decide to try teaching at the University level. What your degree is in is almost of no matter to teaching English in Taiwan, after all, so why not do something that you could use at home as well as abroad?
For your girlfriend, an MA TESOL might make good sense. She’ll look like an expert in her field and may really get a lot out of it. You’ve got a white face no matter what kind of education you have. Pay for something that’s going to be worth it in the long run.
The only situation in Taiwan where you get any benefit from a Masters degree is if you are shooting for a university job. No other employer cares enough to put their money where their mouth is.
On the other hand, if you are doing it for personal (not financial) enrichment, then all training, education and experience is worthwhile.
Yep. Tis true. The rankings (published last week) pretty much lambasted all the schools in Taiwan for their poor rankings… Even my school did better than Taida, and that’s saying something given the fact that my school is relatively smaller, largely arts-based, and Taida has huge gobs of govt. money thrown at it.
I would suspect that Taiwan schools are good for somethings, and a Masters from one of the better schools could open doors in the States… But seriously, which school would you choose here? If it’s not the local top-10 or a prominent international researcher working here, why bother…?
The Taiwanese are canny shoppers and most know that they HAVE to go abroad to get a degree that counts for something (even here) Sorry for my prejudice… but having worked at several top schools in Taiwan, I was shocked at the lack of professionalism in the departments, the backbiting and the disregard for fellow colleagues.
And yes, Taiwan is a developing country, but China managed to get some schools in there, so did India, Singapore, HongKong, all had more prominent schools… Of course, most of the poor quality is due to poor student-teacher ratios… that’s the one thing local edu doesn’t want to spend money on more and better professors. God forbid that they’d pay international rates for researchers… Mmm.
To elaborate on what Craig said, if you’re thinking of it in terms of career prospects, then it’s probably not a good idea if you want to teach in Taiwan. You could work at a university, though they pay less. Otherwise, it’s not going to help you increase your pay (unless you’re doing something slightly different to working in someone else’s buxiban). Even if it does increase your pay, it’s not going to be by much, and then you have to do an analysis of the return on your investment (including the opportunity cost incurred when studying and not working and the higher living costs in the U.S.), which is probably going to be a pretty lousy return. You’d probably get more by sticking your money in a bank or buying bonds.
If you’re thinking of teaching somewhere else or you’re doing it for personal reasons, go for it.
I’m not that interested in TESOL, so I wouldn’t be doing it for personal reasons (and I think it’s unlikely I’ll ever go anywhere else to teach). I’ve done the above analysis and it simply wouldn’t be worth it.
Are you planning on working in the government? Or do you plan on continuing your teaching career?[/quote]
Well I won’t be in Taiwan forever. My hope is work in Taiwan doing whatever I can (teaching included) but leave enough time to get some research published.
As nice as TESOL is, and as much as I adore Taiwan, I don’t plan on working as a humble English teacher forever.
If I got to the U of M, I don’t have to pay rent because my brother has a house not far from the U. I can pay the tuition rate of a local after a while… I’m from Minnesota so I’m very familiar with the area. I won’t lose that much of an investment. The whole reason I’m saving money now is for grad school, and it’s possible while I’m at the grad school I may get published, get some fellowships, and make some money while I’m at it. Anything is possible.
I’m not sure what kind of job I can realistically expect to find with a Public Policy MA in Taiwan. I think I’ll just do some volunteering and professional research to bolster my resume as much as possible before I ultimately move back to the US.
So my plan is… Work here for a few years and save money for grad school, go to grad shcool, go BACK to Taiwan for a few years, and finally come back to the US. Why the constant back and forth? Because of the fiance of course. As long as I can find something to do and some way to make ample money, I’m not too worried about my degree going to waste. I’ve shared beers with a few government officials who were once my professors a couple years ago, so they may be able to help me when I start doing research (and have suggested as much).
it seems pretty legit to me and it does make Taiwan unis look pretty rank. Hong Kong and Singapore look alright though.
I’m weighing up the pro’s and cons of doing an MA or even a Phd myself. Cost is a big hindrance,especially as the pay isn’t a great increase, if an increase at all. There are pro’s to it. you can take it anywhere in the world, uni working hours seem to low for the money you get with especially the holidays and it’s good if you have a general interest in the subject.
do many people on this site work for taiwan unis at the moment? what do you reckon to it
A TESOL MA was a foot in the door for Instructor positions in universities. These days most recruitment is done at Assistant Professor level, and for that you need a PhD. At one point you could get away with a PhD in just about anything, but nowadays it has to be in ELT.
How come? are the instructor positions generally filled by MA grads. It’s seeming like there are more and more MA grads floating about south east asia now.
Unis don’t want to recruit instructors. University staff are all supposed to be research active. But yes, to get an Instructor job, if you can turn one up, you need a TESOL MA on the whole.
Not all that long ago (2-3 years), you only had to have started a PhD to be considered for a faculty position. I believe this is still the case in some universities at least, as I have a few friends in this situation who were recently hired on as assistant profs.
I disagree with pretty much everything that’s been said here.
First off, I do not think these rankings are very helpful for anything. Rankings of universities are all designed to promote particular schools. The Times ranking that you referred to is designed to promote British education and gives points for the kind of things that British education excells at. If you look at the research rankings of Taiwan universities and compare this with those of other schools in Asia, Taiwan does quite well.
This is true. Taiwan universities do not pay well compared with universities in other parts of the world. Whether you have access to those high-paying university jobs as an MA holder in TESOL is a different matter.
Simon is generally correct, but it is still possible to get jobs to get at universities with an MA. These are not good jobs and usually situated somewhere in rural Taiwan. But in general, it is true that these days MA holders will end up more often than not at a high school.
And he is correct that any of the jobs you would want demand research and publication production.
Since I don’t know the details of this, I can’t really comment, but I doubt a PhD candidate could get hired as an assistant professor in this climate. That has certainly never been the case at my school nor any school I know anything about.
Regardless, I do believe the masters English teaching scene is pretty much dead in Asia. I don’t think there’s much future for anyone here without a PhD. You can read more about why I think this here scottsommers.wordpress.com/2009/ … s-in-asia/
Yes. Offered to me personally at Kainan University. I know of two others (only one directly) who took up the same offer at other universities in Taoyuan County.
If the OP is really interested in ESL/EFL as a career choice, then having a TESOL MA is not worthless in the States. It would be the basic credential for getting State teaching certification in ESL, and there are loads of jobs open in that these days – they can hardly keep them filled. K-12 teachers end up making a good whack of money at least where I’m from, their retirement system is second to none, and if you like teaching (and can handle a certain amount of administrative bullshit) it is not a bad choice if he is thinking of returning to the US. Just pick the State carefully enough to be looking at a reasonable salary.
True, and in the grand scheme of the universe, education and self improvement is a good thing. However, the OP mentioned planning specifically for Taiwan, which if that’s the case, purely in terms of potential ROI and job prospects, it’s a waste of time.
This is true. Taiwan universities do not pay well compared with universities in other parts of the world. Whether you have access to those high-paying university jobs as an MA holder in TESOL is a different matter.
I may have been referring to university jobs elsewhere, but I believe I was comparing teaching jobs within Taiwan (I may have been unclear about this, sorry).
The people I know who work at universities here get considerably less than 70,000NT/month, some below 60,000NT/month. Doing 25 hours per week at a buxiban for 700NT/hour works out the same. Plenty of buxiban teachers make considerably more than 70,000NT/month, especially if they add kindy. Of course, in many ways, the university system is a nicer gig (though I’ve heard there’s also a reasonable amount of prep, testing, etc.).
So, if you’re doing it for the purposes of teaching in Taiwan, it simply doesn’t make sense to spend all the time and money getting an extra qualification that doesn’t increase your earning potential unless you’re really sick of nine year olds. The market in Taiwan is odd in the respect that having additional qualifications rarely improves earning potential in just about any field of English teaching. Those people in Taiwan who are making more than your average buxiban teacher are doing something vaguely entrepreneurial.
working here, why bother…?