[quote=“imyourbiggestfan”][quote=“cake”]That supports the fallacy of politics. It is all about interests - usually business intersts.[/quote] How then, Fruity, do you explain that most government expenditure is devoted to redistributive payments from the young to the old and from the rich to the poor?[/quote] An answer?
[quote=“imyourbiggestfan”][quote=“cake”]…Labour never gained power through the 80s… their views where dated concerning business…[/quote] Before you implied that business interests were forced on the electorate by political parties. Now you suggest that business interests were forced on the political parties by the electorate. Which is it?[/quote] An answer?
I always knew that blair was full of shit. I always knew that he was lying out of his teeth - I never hoped for anything apart from people being able to see the light!
You are making an assumption - I knew the deal, I knew what they supported, and it was the lies - like the student loans things, those are the type of things that people don’t like. Like they are trying to privatise the London underground - Most Londerners are against that and showed their frustration with Blair by voting for Ken Livingstone in the London Mayor elections in 2000. Those are the lies I am talking about. Nothing to do with old labour/new labour.
Capitalism has been a part of the UK for decades.
The last time I voted was in 1992 - all parties then had capitalist traits!!!
[quote=“cake”]I always knew… [Blair] was lying out of his teeth[/quote] You miss the point. He wasn’t lying - we knew he would change labour, he would ditch the left-wing. He kept his word. He disappoints those who thought it might be an (undemocratic) election trick. For his democracy and truthfulness, you condemn him. Hence, you are a despot.
[quote=“cake”]You never lived under thatcher, you’ll never understand what she did.[/quote] Hmmmm… how about allowing people to buy their own council houses? I assume you oppose this? Even though it created landowners of people who previously paid rent to the Government? Nasty.
[quote=“cake”]They are trying to privatise the London underground[/quote] Lies? Labour policy c.1997. [quote=“cake”]Londerners…showed their frustration with Blair by voting for Ken Livingstone[/quote] Democracy in action; “business interests” lost! Another inconsistency? Now three answers needed, please.
Fruitcake, you know remarkably little about your own country!
Imthebiggestjerk you have no clue about thatcher. I have no problem about council houses being bought or any other house being bought. By the way they didn’t pay rent to the government, they paid rent to the council.
Allowing people to get into debt was a clever move by thatcher, it helped destroy the unions. If you have a mortgage to pay the last thing you want to do is strike. And the falklands war was used by her for the second election, but that is another story.
Thatcher let cities in the UK go to ruin because they didn’t back her. A staunch Labour council had no chance of thatcher investing into it. It resulted with roits breaking out in the early 1980s in inner cities around the UK.
Luckily with the UK being in europe there has been regeneration in such cities (some 15-20 years after she took power). The EU has done more for these cities than what the conservative party ever did.
Privatisation of the undergraound, yes they lied.
As usual you are trying to put words into my mouth.
The vote for livingstone in the london mayor election was not like a general election - it was basically a protest vote aimed at blair. People do not want privatisation of the underground because they know the way the railways went and that safety was thrown out of the window for profits. They don’t want a repeat of that.
It told blair and must have pissed him off that the people were not happy with his smug attitude.
Unfortunately he never learned from it and is going down the same road as thatcher, he is becoming conceited, already people are talking about his successor. When Blair came to power he was the darling, that is changing fast.
Regarding business issues - I said previously that the system changed and was different 20 years ago compared to now. Hence the system now aims to win over big business and the media first, rather than an electorate before an election takes place. Everyone knew of the meetings Blair was having with Murdoch (another who helped spread lies about certain cities who were not pro thatcher)
Of course there is spenditure from rich to poor, young to old (it is mandatory), but in the UK the rich have nice tax concessions, and the poor have to deal with the stealth taxes to cover this.
They need to get the money from somewhere.
The conservative party were known as the party of sleaze and now labour are being labeled with this too.
The (old)labour party used to have something called supertax which really was insane. The tax rate was so high. They could never go back to this, but like always there is a two tier system. Rich and poor. The system now favours the very rich - the people with big business intersts.
Everyone knew that Blair had changed the labour party to suit the general public. It was the only way he could get into power. We all knew he would ditch (most) of the left-wing and did, but they are not lies. I am talking about promises to do things that he didn’t do. How many times do I have to get this across. He would say things like we will do this and we will do that (- nothing to do with left or right), and I knew he was lying he had no intention, it was said to please people.
But all politicians lie, I guess the reason why I reacted like I did was because he was painted as a darling at the time and I was always wary, as one should be when there is so much adulation from the press.
The UK has always had capitalists. The difference was that with thatcher she privatised almost everything there was to privatise without regard for the general public. The prime example is the rail industry. It is in a shambeles and ask anyone in the UK, should it be re-nationalised - there will be a consensus of yes.
I have no problem with some privatisation (and there are success stories) as long as there is no monopoly and that public safety is the main issue.
People in the UK also are appalled at the obscene profits that company ‘fat cats’ make while the service from such companies can be dreadful.
I know you are trying to put me into a corner - you want to try and expose me as some socialist right-wing liberal - it won’t work.
Somebody should turn out the light
[quote=“cake”]Like they are trying to privatise the London underground… Those are the lies I am talking about. [/quote] [quote=“cake”]Privatisation of the undergraound, where do i say it is lies? As usual you are trying to put words into my mouth. [/quote] Its like shooting fish in a barrel.
[quote=“cake”]By the way they didn’t pay rent to the government, they paid rent to the council[/quote]Council IS government.
[quote=“cake”]thatcher…privatised almost everything there was to privatise without regard for the general public. The prime example is the rail industry[/quote] Wrong yet again. John Major privatised rail in 1996.
the government lied over the rail industry
society.guardian.co.uk/Print/0%2 … %2C00.html
Council is not the government, it is local government - who could be the opposing party to the government in power of the country, who decide things such as education, police, road repairs etc.
[quote=“cake”][T]he rail industry… is in a shambeles and ask anyone in the UK, should it be re-nationalised - there will be a consensus of yes.[/quote] Environmentalists have some good arguments why it is not in a shambles. igreens.org.uk/real_story_of … atisat.htm
sorry I should have said the conservative party did, thatcher, major, is just like bush and bush. Keep trying with the petty details you are becoming even a bigger jerk.
[quote=“cake”]Council is not the government, it is local government[/quote] Yes, local government but still part of the Government of the UK. Still part of the state.
Ha ha - go to england and ask people in the street, go to any station and ask people. Go to a scene of a rail crash and ask people, I can safely say they will be against privatisation. The issue is not the companies running trains, but the actual safety of the track.
I didn’t realise how much these forums mean to people. Get a life for fux sake.
Wooooaaaah… headspin. A flip-flop-flip! Cool!
and… is that it? is that all you can come up with?
he he he he
The government lied over the rail industry full stop, yeah I wanted you to tell me where I said it was lies, I wanted you to remind me.
You are a classic jerk, always looking to get one over someone. Well it doesn’t work here frat boy.
With you you would privatise taking a shit if it could make you a dime.
Like I said you need to get a life, get out more talk to people.
Fruity. You get your facts wrong again.
Labour openly said that it would restructure the London Underground and that meant partial privatisation.
“Labour plans a new public/private partnership to improve the Underground.” Labour Party Manifesto 1997.