Constantly being asked to do illegal stuff!

Work Teaching English in Taiwan
41

Now that I have my JFRV and waiting for my ARC (with open work rights) I am searching for jobs.

Got a call from a large chain school last night.

Chain School “We would love for you to come do a demo for us”

Me “I would be glad to come for an interview, but demos will have to wait until I have my ARC in hand”

Chain School “Oh it wont be a problem, we have a back room you can do the demo in”

Me “What age range are the students?”

Chain School “We are a kindergarten”

Me :wall:

Chain School: “We ned someone quickly, you could work off the books until you get your ARC”

Me “No thanks” click.

lets count how many illegal things have occured here:
1: Demo
2: Kindy
3: Work with no taxes
4: Employing someone without an ARC

The list could probably get longer had I allowed the conversation to last any longer. Decided to end it quick…why would I work for a school willing to put me at risk? Crazy days man…crazy days.

42

shifty said:
What’s long and hard on a forumosian?
Grade 3.

everybody else says:
speak for yourself, why insult those who try to help you?

an open work permit for a married ARC is 100 bucks from CLA. get it and you can do whatever you want, workwise at least. it does not give you a licence to insult us.

and if you don’t like the job conditions, tell someone who can do something about it, like your brother in law. and anyway, if you have a BIL in the CLA, why didn’t you get this info from him in the first place???

43

[quote=“urodacus”]shifty said:
What’s long and hard on a forumosian?
Grade 3.

everybody else says:
speak for yourself, why insult those who try to help you?
[/quote]

dude it is a joke and considering I am a Foromosian myself it would also be self-deprecating as well.

I know sarcasm is a tough sell on the net but…lighten up.

44

yeah, the net is a funny place, isn’t it.

still, i still don’t see it as sarcasm, and i am an aussie, for whom sarcasm is a mother tongue.

and don’t call me dude, dude.

45

What’s grade three, anyway?

46

Year 4 :smiley:

47

Year 4 :smiley:[/quote]
What’s Year 4?

48

Having an open work permit doesn’t mean that you can legally teach kindys or teach if you don’t have a degree.
To wit, I have a two year electronic engineering degree , but I don’t have the teaching certificate. I was teaching conversation classes part time at GVO and after a month my boss was asked by the MOE to show proof of my degree.

49

let me clarify: you can do any work that a similarly-skilled taiwanese citizen is entitled to.

of course, with no teaching certificate, what are you doing teaching kids anyway?

you can hold two jobs, work in a bank, open a store, but you can’t be a doctor or nurse, frinstance, without the correct ticket.

50

an open work permit for a married ARC is 100 bucks from CLA

Was under the impression if he is married to a local he wouldnt need such a thing?

51

He wouldn’t. He doesn’t.

52

[quote=“creztor”]

Was under the impression if he is married to a local he wouldnt need such a thing?[/quote]

as usual there are two answers to every question here. it is probably not necessary for some people but useful to wave at others to let them see the all-important stamp of somebody higher up the food chain than them. pesonally, i have never needed one, just showed them the ARC… and argued a bit. the actual labour law AFAIK does not mention it being necessary. people’s interpretations of the law very widely.

53

Ok thats what I thought about not needing it. Im sure there are quite a few people in Taiwan teaching who dont have a teaching degree (instead mabye a 3yr bachelors degree or something instead) so you are saying they shouldnt be teaching?

54

A bachelor’s degree in any discipline is all that the Taiwanese authorities require for foreign ESL teachers.

55

Just thought I’d add a new twist to this old thread:
I got a call from my older boss of a few years back, who asked me if I would be interested in privately tutoring her kids. This charming woman pretty much broke every law conceivable with me. Lied about everything possible and threatened to put me on the blacklist when I refused to be loaned out to her friends when she felt like it. Now three years later she is calling me up asking to privately tutor her kids…

I ask “but isn’t that illegal?”

To which she replied, “oh don’t worry-la, everybody does it! it is ok-la! LOL”

I asked her what happened to her last tutor ,why didn’t it work out, was there a problem with her kids?"

Now here is the kicker; she, in her attempt to save face and prove the properness of her kids, spoke too fast and replied, “oh no! no! there was no problem with my kids the other tutor got sent back to the UK for teaching illegally, my kids are fine.”
:astonished: … :unamused: … :astonished:

By now I am at my maximum tolerance for bullshit and my ability to not mind-fuck people has been worn away like a cheap veneer.

I reply, “ok-la! sounds good! listen I just need to to sign some papers that say you will pay for my air ticket home and a 250,000 NT moving allowance should I get deported.”

dead silence on the phone for about 10 seconds… then she says “well no I can’t do that it is too much money… too much risk…”

Now the hook is in and I twist, " what risk? you just told me 5 mins ago it is ok-la and everybody does it. It is ok-la! don’t worry-la!. Just sign the papers and we can start next week, everything is fine LOL."

“No well I can’t do that it is illegal to sign papers.”

I say “what are you saying?! it is illegal to sign papers to agree to knowingly break the law a commit tax fraud!? That’s crazy! what law is this? Don’t worry-la it is ok-la! everybody does it!, it is fine don’t worry LOL.”

“Err um well I have to talk about it with my husband.”

“Yea no problem” I relpy, “listen do you want the tape for your husband to listen to?”

“what tape?”

“the audio tape to play for your husband. I tape all my phone conversations now. I can drop one off at your school tomorrow afternoon if you want what time will you be in?”

click…

I could actually her her fumbling and drop the phone in her fevered rush to hang up.

:slight_smile:

56

[quote=“shifty”]Just thought I’d add a new twist to this old thread:
I got a call from my older boss of a few years back, who asked me if I would be interested in privately tutoring her kids. This charming woman pretty much broke every law conceivable with me. Lied about everything possible and threatened to put me on the blacklist when I refused to be loaned out to her friends when she felt like it. Now three years later she is calling me up asking to privately tutor her kids…

I ask “but isn’t that illegal?”

To which she replied, “oh don’t worry-la, everybody does it! it is ok-la! LOL”

I asked her what happened to her last tutor ,why didn’t it work out, was there a problem with her kids?"

Now here is the kicker; she, in her attempt to save face and prove the properness of her kids, spoke too fast and replied, “oh no! no! there was no problem with my kids the other tutor got sent back to the UK for teaching illegally, my kids are fine.”
:astonished: … :unamused: … :astonished:

By now I am at my maximum tolerance for bullshit and my ability to not mind-fuck people has been worn away like a cheap veneer.

I reply, “ok-la! sounds good! listen I just need to to sign some papers that say you will pay for my air ticket home and a 250,000 NT moving allowance should I get deported.”

dead silence on the phone for about 10 seconds… then she says “well no I can’t do that it is too much money… too much risk…”

Now the hook is in and I twist, " what risk? you just told me 5 mins ago it is ok-la and everybody does it. It is ok-la! don’t worry-la!. Just sign the papers and we can start next week, everything is fine LOL."

“No well I can’t do that it is illegal to sign papers.”

I say “what are you saying?! it is illegal to sign papers to agree to knowingly break the law a commit tax fraud!? That’s crazy! what law is this? Don’t worry-la it is ok-la! everybody does it!, it is fine don’t worry LOL.”

“Err um well I have to talk about it with my husband.”

“Yea no problem” I relpy, “listen do you want the tape for your husband to listen to?”

“what tape?”

“the audio tape to play for your husband. I tape all my phone conversations now. I can drop one off at your school tomorrow afternoon if you want what time will you be in?”

click…

I could actually her her fumbling and drop the phone in her fevered rush to hang up.

:slight_smile:[/quote]

:bravo: :bravo: :bravo:

57

[quote=“shifty”]Just thought I’d add a new twist to this old thread:
I got a call from my older boss of a few years back, who asked me if I would be interested in privately tutoring her kids. This charming woman pretty much broke every law conceivable with me. Lied about everything possible and threatened to put me on the blacklist when I refused to be loaned out to her friends when she felt like it. Now three years later she is calling me up asking to privately tutor her kids…

I ask “but isn’t that illegal?”

To which she replied, “oh don’t worry-la, everybody does it! it is ok-la! LOL”

I asked her what happened to her last tutor ,why didn’t it work out, was there a problem with her kids?"

Now here is the kicker; she, in her attempt to save face and prove the properness of her kids, spoke too fast and replied, “oh no! no! there was no problem with my kids the other tutor got sent back to the UK for teaching illegally, my kids are fine.”
:astonished: … :unamused: … :astonished:

By now I am at my maximum tolerance for bullshit and my ability to not mind-fuck people has been worn away like a cheap veneer.

I reply, “ok-la! sounds good! listen I just need to to sign some papers that say you will pay for my air ticket home and a 250,000 NT moving allowance should I get deported.”

dead silence on the phone for about 10 seconds… then she says “well no I can’t do that it is too much money… too much risk…”

Now the hook is in and I twist, " what risk? you just told me 5 mins ago it is ok-la and everybody does it. It is ok-la! don’t worry-la!. Just sign the papers and we can start next week, everything is fine LOL."

“No well I can’t do that it is illegal to sign papers.”

I say “what are you saying?! it is illegal to sign papers to agree to knowingly break the law a commit tax fraud!? That’s crazy! what law is this? Don’t worry-la it is ok-la! everybody does it!, it is fine don’t worry LOL.”

“Err um well I have to talk about it with my husband.”

“Yea no problem” I relpy, “listen do you want the tape for your husband to listen to?”

“what tape?”

“the audio tape to play for your husband. I tape all my phone conversations now. I can drop one off at your school tomorrow afternoon if you want what time will you be in?”

click…

I could actually her her fumbling and drop the phone in her fevered rush to hang up.

:slight_smile:[/quote]

Cool.
Have you still not sorted out a JFRV? That would make the whole thing legit. You could tutor with that no problem. And, if you must, pay taxes too. A Taiwanese wouldn’t require any qualifications to do that work, so that means on a JFRV you wouldn’t either.

Funny thing though. For five years with one employer I thought that I had done everything legal. With his help I’d filled in all the tax forms and paid the money and got all the receipts. Turns out they were all fake. Try proving it, LOL, the tax office doesn’t want to know, they just wanted their money. In short, I got done both ways.

It’s nice to now be in a country and with a company that does follow the rules.

58

[quote=“shifty”]Just thought I’d add a new twist to this old thread:
I got a call from my older boss of a few years back, who asked me if I would be interested in privately tutoring her kids. This charming woman pretty much broke every law conceivable with me. Lied about everything possible and threatened to put me on the blacklist when I refused to be loaned out to her friends when she felt like it. Now three years later she is calling me up asking to privately tutor her kids…

I ask “but isn’t that illegal?”

To which she replied, “oh don’t worry-la, everybody does it! it is ok-la! LOL”

I asked her what happened to her last tutor ,why didn’t it work out, was there a problem with her kids?"

Now here is the kicker; she, in her attempt to save face and prove the properness of her kids, spoke too fast and replied, “oh no! no! there was no problem with my kids the other tutor got sent back to the UK for teaching illegally, my kids are fine.”
:astonished: … :unamused: … :astonished:

By now I am at my maximum tolerance for bullshit and my ability to not mind-fuck people has been worn away like a cheap veneer.

I reply, “ok-la! sounds good! listen I just need to to sign some papers that say you will pay for my air ticket home and a 250,000 NT moving allowance should I get deported.”

dead silence on the phone for about 10 seconds… then she says “well no I can’t do that it is too much money… too much risk…”

Now the hook is in and I twist, " what risk? you just told me 5 mins ago it is ok-la and everybody does it. It is ok-la! don’t worry-la!. Just sign the papers and we can start next week, everything is fine LOL."

“No well I can’t do that it is illegal to sign papers.”

I say “what are you saying?! it is illegal to sign papers to agree to knowingly break the law a commit tax fraud!? That’s crazy! what law is this? Don’t worry-la it is ok-la! everybody does it!, it is fine don’t worry LOL.”

“Err um well I have to talk about it with my husband.”

“Yea no problem” I relpy, “listen do you want the tape for your husband to listen to?”

“what tape?”

“the audio tape to play for your husband. I tape all my phone conversations now. I can drop one off at your school tomorrow afternoon if you want what time will you be in?”

click…

I could actually her her fumbling and drop the phone in her fevered rush to hang up.

At least we know that one of these evil bosses got some sort of come-uppance.

And for what it’s worth, there are a few good bosses out there who don’t break all the rules, though they may bend a few. My current boss breaks a few rules here and there but goes out of her way to make sure that her foreign teachers won’t be blamed in the unlikely event that something goes wrong. As a few people have pointed out, some of the rules just aren’t practical, but any good boss protects his/her people. I sincerely hope that you find one.

:slight_smile:[/quote]

For what it’s worth, this post made my day. True story? :notworthy:

59

[quote=“nemesis”][quote=“shifty”]Just thought I’d add a new twist to this old thread:
I got a call from my older boss of a few years back, who asked me if I would be interested in privately tutoring her kids. This charming woman pretty much broke every law conceivable with me. Lied about everything possible and threatened to put me on the blacklist when I refused to be loaned out to her friends when she felt like it. Now three years later she is calling me up asking to privately tutor her kids…

I ask “but isn’t that illegal?”

To which she replied, “oh don’t worry-la, everybody does it! it is ok-la! LOL”

I asked her what happened to her last tutor ,why didn’t it work out, was there a problem with her kids?"

Now here is the kicker; she, in her attempt to save face and prove the properness of her kids, spoke too fast and replied, “oh no! no! there was no problem with my kids the other tutor got sent back to the UK for teaching illegally, my kids are fine.”
:astonished: … :unamused: … :astonished:

By now I am at my maximum tolerance for bullshit and my ability to not mind-fuck people has been worn away like a cheap veneer.

I reply, “ok-la! sounds good! listen I just need to to sign some papers that say you will pay for my air ticket home and a 250,000 NT moving allowance should I get deported.”

dead silence on the phone for about 10 seconds… then she says “well no I can’t do that it is too much money… too much risk…”

Now the hook is in and I twist, " what risk? you just told me 5 mins ago it is ok-la and everybody does it. It is ok-la! don’t worry-la!. Just sign the papers and we can start next week, everything is fine LOL."

“No well I can’t do that it is illegal to sign papers.”

I say “what are you saying?! it is illegal to sign papers to agree to knowingly break the law a commit tax fraud!? That’s crazy! what law is this? Don’t worry-la it is ok-la! everybody does it!, it is fine don’t worry LOL.”

“Err um well I have to talk about it with my husband.”

“Yea no problem” I relpy, “listen do you want the tape for your husband to listen to?”

“what tape?”

“the audio tape to play for your husband. I tape all my phone conversations now. I can drop one off at your school tomorrow afternoon if you want what time will you be in?”

click…

I could actually her her fumbling and drop the phone in her fevered rush to hang up.

At least we know that one of these evil bosses got some sort of come-uppance.

And for what it’s worth, there are a few good bosses out there who don’t break all the rules, though they may bend a few. My current boss breaks a few rules here and there but goes out of her way to make sure that her foreign teachers won’t be blamed in the unlikely event that something goes wrong. As a few people have pointed out, some of the rules just aren’t practical, but any good boss protects his/her people. I sincerely hope that you find one.

:slight_smile:[/quote]

For what it’s worth, this post made my day. True story? :notworthy:[/quote]

glad I could make your day and yes absolutely true. The longer I am here the more prone I am to finding ways to entertain myself. the entire time I worked for her we were constantly battling over my refusals to do illegal stuff, so I don’t know why she figured that all of a sudden i had changed my mind.

Whatever, it made me laugh and my wife thought it was hilarious.

60

Joy School is just one of many that I know of. But then it depends upon which school within that chain you go for. Some positions will be outright illegal with no work permit while others are the complete opposite. I know that you can work there however 100% legally if you want.[/quote]
Don’t make me laugh. I was having to fight illegal measures my whole five years there. I didn’t even know I was illegally working there until my second year. They actually had me signing two contracts: one falsified one to send to the government so they would think I’m legal, and the “true” one kept at the office that, I was assured, would be honored. I told them that it makes no sense to write up a dummy true contract because if I had to stand up for my rights in a court of law, the only contract the government and courts would recognize and I could therefore avail myself of was the falsified one. I said I would sign and recognize only one contract. They allowed me to engineer it as truthfully as possible (as long as it still fooled the government concerning my status). In the States, falsification of government documents with intent to defraud is a felony that puts people in the slammer.
I finally quit over other ethical and legal concerns concerning work protocol.
I’m glad to hear that others care about it. I was chagrinned at the number of fellow foreign coworkers who maintained a blasé attitude about it all. Doing the right thing, even in a country where corruption is rampant, makes a positive difference. One of the reasons America is so wealthy is because intangible wealth comprises about 80% of our aggregate wealth. Intangible wealth is defined as the rule of law, sophistication of the population and trust among them, highly-developed legal structure, and quality institutions. Poor countries are poor (or not as rich) due to a lack of such. Taiwan is slowly building their legal structure and a foundation of legal precedent, but the currently prevailing dishonesty around them stems from the authoritarian years in which the rule of law and legal institutes couldn’t advance or firmly entrench themselves. It’s getting better — slowly.