Coping with local driving conditions

Life Cars & Motorcycles
61

I can’t belive you’re alive either. More than 80% of all accidents take place in intersections. And to enter an intersection while close enough to a truck to be hidden from other peoples points of view…The accident is obviously not your fault, but you could have easily prevented it.[/quote]

Ah. Good Ole FengShan. I showed up for work ON TIME that afternoon bruised from head-to-toe and my boss was like…whoa!..not ANOTHER teacher in an accident…Kaohsiung was WAY dangerous in the mid-90s…and it was probably even moreso around 1991-1992.

62

I have lived here for two years and I have been at a complete loss trying to understand how driving here works, just watching traffic is a mystifying experience.

It would seem that the laws like one-way, red lights sidewalks are there for cosmetic purposes only. If I had a dollar for every time somebody drove the wrong way up a one-way street or on the sidewalk, or double parked on a crosswalk I would be a rich, albeit, confused man.

Then After awhile I noticed that the actions of drivers changed when a cop was present, the drivers actually stopped at crosswalks to let us pass rather than just swerving at the last moment to avoid us. So in fact laws do actually have meaning here.

I have been riding a bike the whole time and have been hit 4 times and left in the road as the drivers, car and scooter, raced away. The last time I chased the guy down and caught him at a red light, and then he said he was sorry, in fact he was sorry I caught him, not that he hit me.

Then I had this epiphany: it is a game, you try to break as many laws as possible with out getting caught every time you take to the roads.

I guess the guy that kills the most people without getting caught wins?

I guess compassion and consideration are too time consuming for Taiwan drivers. God forbid the general public would use a car as anything other than a phallus to fuck as many people as possible. :loco:

I had this conversation with my Taiwanese friends and some ex-pats: the ex-pats gave me some intellectual gems like “Taiwan people are genetically bad drivers and rude” The Taiwanese said we love driving in the US and Canada and Europe cuz the road is respectable from fear of fines.

I personally like Mayor Ma and wish he would pull a Giuliani.
In New York in the late 80’s it was a shithole and he started a public awareness campaign. Fines for everything i.e. jaywalking, spitting traffic violations, etc. you name it it had a fine…

This had a two fold-effect: one it changed the public face of N.Y. by penalizing the lack of respect in public it improved the overall vibe of the city, and it put much needed money in the civic coffers.

Can you imaging the amount of income to be generated by enforcing the public, pedestrian and traffic laws here for just one month?!
That income could be put to improving infrastructure and to clear rotting dilapidated buildings from the city core.

However, the best effect would be the eventual rise of Taipei as an unpleasant curiosity to most international travelers to the world-class destination it should be.

I love this place and wish it was the world-class city it should be.

just a thought…
shifty

63

[quote]The Taiwanese said we love driving in the US and Canada and Europe cuz the road is respectable from fear of fines.
[/quote]

They don’t respect each other or their country, hence the bad driving.
I don’t think people in the uS or Europe or elsewhere live in fear of fines, I just think they have more respect for one another.

If you do a search (search box in right hand corner) you will find trillions of threads already covering this subject. It’s entertaining reading for sure.

64

Well, in the US there is an appreciation of the fact that disregarding the rules of the road can heavily impact on your pocketbook. Also you can have your drivers license suspended or taken away. And jail time is a not uncommon result of severe driving violations. This is a major impediment to ones lifestyle.

Also there is the fact that drivers education classes are pretty much a standard feature of high schools nationwide. So people can’t claim ignorance of the laws. Personal ignorance yes, but not of what the rules are.

On Taiwan, there really aren’t any rules. Just…suggestions and assumptions. The laws suggest how things should be done, the public assumes no one else will obey so why should they.

Face it, these people raise their children to do as they do and the kids see irresponsible and stupid behaviour as the norm.
I agree with the Giulianai idea. But then there is the systemic corruption of the local LEO’s to be dealt with. And then there is the judicial corruption. And then there’s the…

65

I don’t think that fines are the way to go to improve things here. If I remember correctly, Taiwan collects the highest per capita income for traffic tickets in the world. It is a major part of the government’s earnings. Taiwan just has a different cultural view on recklessness and endangerment.

In the small town I live in no one stops for the red-lights at the intersection I use everyday. Everytime the light is red cars and motorscooters just continue going through. I have been hit two times and I have seen two people (one a little two-year old) get hit in the last month. When I talk to local people about it they just think that I am being ridiculous. I have to explain to them the western concept of putting “someone’s life in danger”. The local view is that you need to be careful and watch out for yourself. A miss is as good as a mile and getting hit, but not injured, is no big deal. Both times I was hit the driver just drove off after they saw that I could get up and was able to walk normally.

66

I agree with this, but I’m still confounded by much of what the OP said.

Taiwanese simply have nothing “orderly” or considerate to compare to their methods of driving. And because police presence is rare, they’ll try almost anything once and if it works, it becomes part of their driving habits.

It is almost funny when we, as foreigners, confront them on a some lame-brained move because they’ll almost always say they’re sorry. ( Unless it’s a little blue truck driver). Notice how I say “almost?” I do know of some tire iron swinging incidents, guns drawn, blood spilled etc. when confrontations occur. But most of the people who I have approached have apologised. It still ruins your afternoon, especially if you’re with yer Chinese gal.

The most frustrating situations occur when the driver simply have no idea that, when they pulled that 360 degree turn at the intersection, they almost plowed into you and really have no idea what you’re shouting about.

So don’t bother.

I say if you can’t beat 'em, join 'em. Drive like they do; park where they park! The only thing you have to be careful of is this: the Chinese seem to have shithouse luck and Buddha on their side when they run red lights and zip out of blind alleys without checking.

They almost never get hit. We almost always do. :loco:

67

This would be fine if you had an armored car, or didn’t care about having your mirrors torn-off or doors side-swiped. I’ve often thought that the ideal car to own here would have all kinds of jagged angle-bar welded to the exterior, that way no one would even think about getting near it. It really comes down to lack of respect for others and their property. :frowning:

68

Disclaimer: The following is a rant.

I agree, it’s because they have no fking respect for other people’s things. Don’t know how many times my scooter has been moved out of my space, so that some ahole could scrape [read rape] and bang [read fuck] his scooter into a non-existent space between my scooter and another one. And how many times have you come outside to see some motherf**ker sitting and smoking on your scooter. Could you imgaine the pain you would be in back home if some biker found you even breathing on his bike. They should start selling anti-theft devices like in South Africa, you know flame shooters, electric shock panels, and under carriage machete knives. Kill’em all! Ok sorry, rant over. :laughing:

69

I have never been one to reccomend unneccessary violence, however I do believe in having the correct tools for a job.
For some of the situations being described I would suggest one of these tools.
The 21" or 26" are my personal preference. And also proper training in its use.
in profile

70

Beautiful! I’ve seen those, was considering to get one. The 31" would be perfect to knock over f**kers and still be able to keep a safe distance for when they crash. I’ve got mace, but that cop baton is starting to look appealing.

71

:noway:

72

ASP batons and information

disclaimer: I am in no way affiliated nor do I represent this company.
Howecer, once upon a time I was a certified instructor in the use of their baton products. But that was in another life… :slight_smile:

73

Well written Shifty. :bravo: Now let’s get out our batons.

74

“I say if you can’t beat 'em, join 'em. Drive like they do”

I just can not do it, I still can not let go of my old training regarding these things.

I have recently started to speak up loudly when I am standing in line and somebody cuts in, I used to let women and old people slide, now I am speaking up every time, " OY, what da Fuck!" gets everybody’s attention, 9 times out of 10 they say sorry and bail.

The occasional time they want to argue or pretend they did not hear me it gets worse. It is amazing how much shame can be cast by asking the offender loudly in mandarin "did you not see me standing here… or the line, …do you know what a line is? …yea, good there it is. NOW go to the back!"

It still disgusts me as I said b4 because they are not sorry they did it, just sorry I embarrassed them. It is totally a matter of this public mentality “what can I get away with”, however talk with your Taiwanese friends they don’t like it anymore than we do. To quote one of my born and bred Taipei friends, “there are just so many assholes, where do you start?”

I know this sounds a little pompous but I believe every time you see something happen publicly that is amoral, offensive or abusive and you fail to speak up you are guilty of perpetuating the offense by your compliancy. We let that offensive behavior become a cultural norm by failing to speak against it.

Most of us here are English teachers, part of language is cultural context, and the concept of moot court. Knowing a language is fine but if you have no understanding of the cultural norms it is pointless. As you are unable to function without pissing everybody off.

Maybe we can teach some of our little ones the concepts of waiting in lines, or compassion or doing what is right ;not just what is right for you.

If any of the kids travel abroad to use there language skills they will have a real hard time cuz they will be hated pretty quick acting like they do here, elsewhere. I like some of my students a lot, and really hope they travel and do well in life.

Maybe some of us can arm our students with consideration and compassion?

just a thought…

75

I should really call this thread “textbook roadblock” because that is exactly what happened. :fume:

Sure I get cut-off a dozen times a day and even more on Sundays. But this one takes the cake. :help:

So there I am cruising down a wide open stretch of highway near the beach in Tainan…Anping to be specific. Nobody in front of me as far as the eye can see and, more importantly, nobody behind me. It’s the middle of the day, clear blue skies. The road and surrounding landscape is as flat and level as an airport. In other words, you can see a car or scooter coming at least 200-300 meters away, easy.

I can see a group of cars approaching on a intersecting road, but they’re a ways off and I’m traveling at about 80 km/h, surely they can see me and, considering they have to STOP first to enter onto the road I’m on, and I’m cruising pretty good, they’ll let me pass and then proceed to do whatever they want, right?

No.

Instead of stopping at the stop sign and letting me go by, all three of these cars (the first one was a lumbering Econo-van) cross the road directly in my path and proceed to drive onto some dirt road not even visible from my point of view. So of course, the two cars behind the van had to stop while this idiot in the van tried to crawl off the road.

WTF??? :astonished: I swear they didn’t even notice the fact that I had to almost screech to a halt to avoid hitting these retards.

Yes, I know people in Taiwan don’t respect any so called road rules. Yes, I know most people would run over their own mother if it would save them time to get to the 7-11. Yes, I know consideration doesn’t exist in their vocabulary. But this was insane.

All they had to do was wait a nano-second and they would’ve had the whole stretch of road to themselves for at least a couple minutes, in order to perform their idiotic, life threatening BS “driving.”

What is with these people? Have they absolutely no brains when it comes to driving? Where is it in the Taiwan culture book that says “…and always put the other motorist in danger…”?

I could almost understand a move like this in the city. But not the suburbs on a holiday when they clearly weren’t in any hurry. If I hadn’t had my gal with me, I would have stopped. But I knew it would just ruin my day and would do absolutely no good. They just don’t get it. :loco:

Afterward, when I talked to my Chinese gal about it, she just shrugged her shoulders. I didn’t want to press the point because it seemed futile to point out that you just don’t do that kind of thing, given the ideal driving conditions.

Honestly, I give up! :unamused:

76

I got hit again in my Isuzu last weekend… :fume:

This time the genius thought turning right from the left lane without looking was a good idea. My bull bar went through his passenger window, and was resting against his passenger’s head when he stopped. By the look on his face he had no idea whatsoever that I was driving next to him.

My truck wasn’t damaged at all, but he’ll be letting his future passengers in through the driver’s door for the next few days… :loco:

How does one not notice a two ton SUV?

77

That passenger was very lucky!

A question – obviously common sense says the other driver was at fault, but do the cops see it this way as well? I heard that it used to be that the driver behind was always at fault – has it changed now?

78

Armor up if you’re on a scooter. Full-face helmet, complex laminates best. Jacket with elbow/forearm, shoulder, and back pads, e.g., Brosh mesh jackets for summer. Gloves with special armor and padding, especially on the outer edge and palm heel. Kevlar-reinforced jeans with insertable kneepads. Wear light, bright colors. Slow down, and stay alert.

In a car, buckle up. Slow down, and stay alert.

Either way, don’t drink and drive!

79

[quote=“joesax”]That passenger was very lucky!

A question – obviously common sense says the other driver was at fault, but do the cops see it this way as well? I heard that it used to be that the driver behind was always at fault – has it changed now?[/quote]

I tried calling the cops but the guy would have none of it…I think we both know why :wink:

After looking at my truck and looking at his ruined passenger door/window, I figured he’d had enough fun for one night. I took his ID number and left.

80

That’s incredible, MJB. Must be something in the lunar calendar, because it seems to be happening everywhere.

Some guy sideswiped my wife in our Volkswagen on Tuesday as she was idling at a red light. Typically, he just kept on driving; didn’t stop. She parked the car and went after him on foot, got the plate number and managed to find where he was parking his car to go sweep his family’s tomb.

Anyway, long and short is that he didn’t want to admit fault, saying he didn’t even realize that he’d hit our car, so the police were called-in, which is about where I arrived at the scene. Now, I have to say, that the damage to our car is really no more than a small scratch over the rear, left wheelwell, though the damage to his is an inch-deep gouge running the length of his front and back doors on the right-hand side of the car. Pretty audible stuff, if you ask me.

Police arrive and say they can’t file a report because the other driver fled the scene and the scene of the accident was no longer intact. Upon my asking if there are any criminal repercussions for hit and run, the officer informed us that there aren’t, unless there is bodily injury to any of the parties involved in the accident. Long and short of it was that the cops persuaded, and this is actually what it seemed like, persuasion rather than the law in action, this other guy to take responsibility because he fled the scene. Needless to say, he was not very happy, saying the damage to his car was much more severe. When I politely asked that, if the damage to his car was so much more severe than the damage to ours and that he must have heard something at the original point of impact, why didn’t he stop and sort out the accident there rather than driving away? Buddy, of course, had no answer for that because, as he said, he didn’t even know he’d hit something…

MJB? Do you know if they make bull-bars for a Volkswagen Bora? :wink: Be money well-spent if they did. :slight_smile: Right now, we’re trying to find out from the insurance company if they’ll cover a rental car for the days that our car is being repaired. Man, if we can, I’m tempted to stiff him with a bill for the biggest, most expensive rental car I can find on the island. :fume:

Had a conversation with a friend at work yesterday and, apparently, this is quite common. He’s had people hit his car and take off three times, as far as he can recall. The best (or worst, depending on how you look at it) was a car that took off, for which he got the license plate number, called the cops, who went to the residence of the culprit and brought him back to the scene of the accident half an hour later to sort out the details. Only repercussion was that he, the runner, was responsible for damages by default. Go figure.