Coronavirus Crisis Open Thread May-September

Just reporting the news about someone who worked in government in a country that looks like it is becoming a dystopian undemocratic nightmare.
I thought you liked the news.

No we do not like the news. The news are there to stir debate, move people, not insult their intelligence and distort reality by pushing an agenda.

Now if we could all just ignore the virus, go back to work, all would be normal, the economy would be safe and the powers of the Judeo Masonic Communist plot would be defeated, right?

Please note I am being sarcastic.

This “truth” has spread all over the world and in contexts away from its birth, the contrast with reality is staggering. It becomes a pathetic joke.

It is OK to be worried about liberty and privacy. A New World Disorder … Sigh…

Coffee awaits.

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Not your version of it. As I said if I wanted to watch fox news I’ll turn on the TV. Going on ignore now.

Are you talking about Australia ?
:joy::joy::joy::joy::joy::joy::joy::joy::joy::joy:

Joker.

This epidemic will be done with the year and it will be done because medical scientists stepped up to the plate.

As always what’s the alternative ? Business and life go on as normal? The virus spreads exponentially. Do you understand what means, basic maths ?

Whatever way you cut it you get the same result , massive economic and social disruption.

Stick yer fingers in your ears and say la la.
The UK and US tried that and failed miserably.

Taiwan where we live got it right (maybe you don’t …) that’s what other countries should have done, they didn’t, they fuckked up. They thought they could waffle and bluster through it.

So stop with the waffling truther shite .

Australia -dystopian nightmare daaawn under lol.
I’ll tell you why they have had another lockdown in Victoria… because they messed up ! They should have had the epidemic under control ages ago but they couldn’t manage the quarantine system properly. Rest of Australia is doing just fine and until Victoria gets it shit together they cant go to the other states…That is being driven by other Aussies…They don’t want Victorian residents coming in and bringing the virus…That’s regular Aussie citizens wishes not just the government !!

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That’s really funny.

Don’t blame them. Possibly or probably unlicensed vaccine and the pharma company immune from prosecution:

The US can do what it likes as long as we get our vaccines in Europe and Asia we’re good. :wink:
You want granddad to die cos you and him didn’t get your vaccine shot…Your choice. You can’t get coronavirus from these vaccines !

All the information is there , go read it !

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My choice not to take a vaccine that isn’t licensed nor proven. I wouldn’t take a flu vaccine either,
You want grandad to die cos you and him took your unlicensed vaccine shot…Your choice. You could get lucky and not have side effects though. Or who knows, it could actually work,

Here in the UK, a friend’s 13 year old daughter told me she signed up for a test online and the queue was too long so went home. She got a text/message sent later with a result saying she was positive.

your uk guys are in a whole lot of problems of their own. pls dont mix them with us problems

and? too weak to bring up any arguments? @cake

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No I didn’t say 'unlicencesed ’ , the vaccines would have passed three rigorous multi site trials.

If the grandson gets infected and visits granddad.(asymptomatic in many cases) grandad might become severely ill and has up.to 3% chance of dying depending on age.

It’s amazing how many people are worried about side effects (usually just high temp) of rigorously tested vaccines rather than a virus that may kill you and yours if you are obese or elderly or have cardiovascular disease or diabetes.

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Have you considered what might be causing that “just high temp” may actually be? Like damaging your body, e.g. an autoimmune response?

That’s why they have clinical trials first.

Raised temp is normal following many vaccinations, it means they are generating a strong immune response…Exactly what they are designed to do. If they don’t generate an immune response they would not be a vaccine would they.

People should really learn more about biology. An auto immune response is something completely different .

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Firstly a raised temperature is not normal after vaccinations, it’s still considered a side effect.

Secondly, an auto-immune response is absolutely not a desirable result, it’s an adverse reaction that occurs in some cases directly due to the vaccination, where the body begins attacking itself through mechanisms known and unknown. For example idiopathic trombocytopenia is a confirmed adverse autoimmune reaction of MMR vaccines e.g. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5607155/#:~:text=Another%20confirmed%20autoimmune%20adverse%20effect,immunization%20[95–97].

Thirdly, “That’s why they have clinical trials first.” assumes the clinical trial rule out all adverse effects and dangers - they do not. In fact, many of the clinical trials are abjectly unfair. For example, to determine if a drug is safe, you’d treat some people with the drug and some without using a placebo and see the difference in adverse reactions. In the case of several vaccines, they treated the control group with the adjuvants contained in the vaccine as the placebo. As a result, there would be no delta in adverse side effects between the two groups if the adjuvant itself causes any adverse reactions (which they do). For example, aluminum does normally does not pass into the body via oral/digestion route, but adjuvants use a special nano particle form that if injected directly into the body. Those nano particles can cross the blood brain barrier, and have in some instances been shown to cause autoimmune response towards neurons.

If vaccines were so cut and dry safe, ask yourself, why are the manufacturers of vaccines almost completely immune from civil liability in the case of vaccine injury? Or why the US has a special court (National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program) where settlements are funded by the US tax payer, to hear cases in secret on vaccine injury - and they have paid out over $4bn in injury claims up to Oct 2019.

Immunology is indeed a fascinating and important area of biological science and medicine, but it’s also relatively new. Current vaccine technology (even the new stuff) still operates only on one aspect of the immune system without attention to the many other systems in play. There is worrying research done with vaccine data from Africa, that shows that so called “dead vaccines” increase infant mortality in women especially 5x as opposed to live vaccines.

What’s blatantly clear in this thread, is there are several people making snide ad hominem attacks and mixing up the issues to misrepresent the meat of the discussion.

Try looking up the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS) https://vaers.hhs.gov/about.html - you might be surprised at the range of adverse reactions run in the thousands of different kinds, and millions of reports. The reactions are not just at the time of the injection, but in the days, weeks and months following.

In summary, vaccine science is not settled, nor is it “completely safe” and shouting down people who have worries and calling them names, or subtly or not so subtly implying they are dumbasses is not how to convince those with doubts. The more you behave this way, the more you will cause believers to have doubts. Humans are not as dumb or malleable as you might think.

As with all medical interventions, there are risks, and some very serious risks and those need to be weighed carefully. Handwaving about lesser evils is not science, it’s just playing to emotions.

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It’s normal even if not everybody experiences that, raised temperatures being part of the way the immune system fights off microbes.
Just like anything it’s the degree and the duration that matters, for the vast majority it’s just going to be a slightly raised temp for a day or two.

Contrast on the other hand with the ‘side effects’ of coronavirus infectjon - lung scarring , kidney damage, heart inflammation and ultimately death for the worst case. Oh yeah and the chance to pass it on to many other people you love.

I have an advanced degree in this general area.

Until an anti vaxxer can put a coherent argument based on knowledge together I don’t need to bother my arse too much explaining in depth something something …‘auto immune’ something something ‘side effects’ doesn’t cut it.

The fact is a coronavirus vaccine will be one of the safer vaccines out there, not even being a killed vaccine, or a live weakened attenuated vaccine (if one doesn’t understand what these are THEY SHOULD LOOK IT UP ON WIKIPEDIA).
Some are even just snippets of DNA or RNA.

If anybody including you can bother to tell me why a coronavirus vaccine based on a chimpanzee adenovirus or AAV will be dangerous (probably the most well researched and accepted vaccine technologies in the world…Especially chimpanzee adenovirus ) …GO RIGHT AHEAD I am waiting.

:grin:

That people come across as stupid waffling about areas they don’t even research is not my problem.

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What is 'the serious risk ’ you are alluding to to a well validated vaccine based on chimpanzee adenovirus or AAV technology.

How much risk are we talking about.?

Let’s talk numbers !!!