Coronavirus Open Thread 2021

So how come the deaths kept going up in the UK and US in Spring if the nursing homes had it under control and that is where the weakest and those closest to death were ?

There’s a good argument then that covid is cutting down many people who still had years in them.

Google the number of people who died of CVD in 2019 by age group. Then correlate with the COVID-19 deaths by age group.

Because other people were dying, obviously.

So not the weakest and those closest to death then ?

I think it’s highly likely that people stopped sending their elderly relatives to nursing homes after April. Those old people didn’t magically vanish. They just weren’t in nursing homes.

My point was merely this: we know for a fact that ~20,000 COVID deaths were people who had about a year of life left, and whose quality-of-life was poor. That doesn’t mean it was OK that they died. But IMO it is not as bad as 20,000 30-year-old parents dying, or 20,000 16-year-olds.

Hmmm there’s no evidence for that is there ?

Well, no evidence apart from the fact that the aged population of Britain didn’t magically vanish. Unless, I suppose, we really are in the End Times and the Rapture happened with nobody noticing. Have you seen any little heaps of tweed clothing and woolly hats in the street?

Anyway, I really don’t know what you’re arguing here. The age-related death stats aren’t a matter of debate. Most of the deaths were old people. Whether they were in nursing homes is immaterial; it’s only of interest because we have very good statistics on life expectancy for the population of nursing homes.

I think I’ve seen a documentary about that.

Part of the irony(?) of this virus is that if it were apparent non-geriatrics had much to fear harsh measures would seem far more reasonable, people would be more willing to comply and it would be over and done with a lot quicker

But all the railing on against “science deniers” and all the rest is quite counter-productive. Much like how I’m far less likely to do what I’m told if someone yells at me, and if I do I’ll do it resentfully; self-righteous condescension makes the person you’re apparently trying to convince dig their heels in. Similarly trying to stifle any criticism or debate makes it look like there’s something to hide; if it stands up to evidence then that should be to stand up to criticism without having to resort to name calling and debate suppression.

The way it’s been talked about currently I feel that even if it were proven 100% safe and effective I’ll refuse any vaccine on matter of principle alone, at least until I’m coerced into taking it at threat of losing my rights.

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If that’s really the case, it seems like a problem with your attitude rather than anything else. I think it’s good to be able and willing to alter your stance on an issue as new information comes to light.

Discussion/debate/criticism are of course all fine (and desirable, IMO). The problem, as I see it, is people who don’t understand the topic believing that their uninformed opinion is just as valid as an informed opinion and continuing to spread low-quality (dis)information that supports their gut feeling about the issue. That isn’t productive discussion/debate/criticism, any more than trying to discuss something complicated with a toddler, a pigeon, or a :cake:. There needs to be some kind of fundamental agreement on things like what constitutes true and false and observable reality for anything productive to come out of it. I quite enjoy @finley 's posts for example - I think that’s a reasonable kind of logical discussion, even if some stuff is probably dependent on one’s values.

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What ?
Where’s the stifling debate lol.
The US for instance saw a massive debate and the denier in chief got turfed out.
All we have is debate all round the world. Everybody is sick of it already.

I’m arguing that many of the dead had years left in them and the fact that deaths still continued to go up when hospital and nursing homes were now well protected supports my case.

I really cannot fathom why you believe this, but whatever floats your boat.

I’ll do an analysis of age-category death rates when I have time.

It’s a fact , there’s nothing to believe. Deaths went down in nursing homes but they still went up elsewhere so the total deaths were actually highest until the vaccines kicked in.

How would that happen if it is was just killing people who were on their last legs exactly ?

Yes, obviously. But there are dozens of possible interpretations for that, and you’d need to look far more closely at the data to find out what the actual reason was. You’re just jumping to conclusions. It doesn’t support your assertion that “many of the dead had years left in them”.

Ok there was a bump in nursing homes in Jan with the new more transmissible variant.

However It’s also true that nursing home deaths, while a big contributor initially, later became a minority component in overall deaths.

Max 30k out of the 127k deaths in the UK to date.

Meanwhile in the world’s shitholes:

Hurrah for lockdowns! Dying of malnutrition is much better than dying of COVID-19.

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That’s terrible, I cannot see the point of general lockdowns in those countries,doesn’t make any sense.

Nice attempt at an insult there. Maybe I should start posting some more of your ‘disinformation’. Perhaps some from the likes of Hancock or Fauci whom you seem to trust.

I don’t recall that I’ve ever said anything on here to imply I trust Fauci (although making a point of not trusting him seems a retarded hill to die on), and I’m certain I’ve never said anything at all about Hancock (the name was familiar but still had to Google him - I haven’t followed UK news for the best part of a decade). Not everyone gets info from famous-ish people on TV, you know.

Though I do find it hilarious that you bring these people up as examples of who not to trust, when you seem to get 98% of your information from randoms on Twitter saying what you want to hear. :grin:

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