Coronavirus Vaccine Discussion

How many of the general public would even understand that? And in any case, even if people are aware of the problem, they need to know what to do about it, and they are being lied to in that regard.

The observation that old people die, and that older people die more often, is mundane in the extreme.

Genuine tragedy is when a younger person dies. Someone who should have had many more years ahead of them. And the results there are pretty clear: if you’re not ill, you’re almost certainly not going to die of COVID (you might still die of something else, of course).

A COVID vaccine doesn’t have any dramatic impact on a young, healthy person’s risk of death because the things that kill healthy young people are things other than COVID.

I already showed that the effect of getting healthy (in an unhealthy individual) far outweighs the putative benefit of getting a COVID vaccine, by a huge margin, but you either didn’t understand it or just ignored it. The fact that you think vaccine effectiveness is a factor here suggests you didn’t understand it.

I’ll also point out again that I’m talking about metabolic syndrome here, not obesity. It’s the authorities who deliberately conflate the two. I’m using the word ‘fat’ as shorthand because it’s easier to type. BMI is an extremely poor proxy measurement for m.s.

This is in the vaccine thread because I’m pointing out that getting vaxed against COVID, statistically speaking, is not the most important thing people can do to stay alive under the circumstances. For a large demographic, it will have almost no measurable effect on their prospects of death. This is why vaccines appear not to be doing what the politicians hoped for, and why they’re desperately trying to find a scapegoat. In fact nothing is wrong; the vaccines are doing pretty much what you would expect. But their expectations were faulty. Vaccines do not “save lives”. They simply reduce the chances that people will get ill from COVID. Those two things are not the same at all.

No doubt. But COVID is not the only illness in the world, and of all the medical problems a young person is likely to face, COVID is not high on the list. How many of your neighbours, do you think, have had a stroke, or are on blood-pressure medications or statins or metformin? How many are going to need hip or knee replacements? How many will die of a heart attack in their 60s? How many can’t do the normal things that a human might expect to do because they’re massively overweight? It’s not going to be only two people. These problems are completely fixable, and yet they’re not being fixed, because people think a magic shot will do the job.

I’ve read a few memoirs of doctors working in Africa in the 20th century. What they absolutely had to do, for every patient, whatever was wrong with them, was to give them a shot. Doctors kept a stock of B12 (or something similarly innocuous) for the purpose. There seems to be something of this attitude in the popularity of COVID shots.


It doesn’t what are you on about ? That’s just false.

The above research shows that only those with severe obesity show a significant risk increase over the average risk for their age…Anything to 20% to 100% increased risk for the most obese in their age bracket . And in fact slightly obese people risk actually drops in many cases !!!

For the over 75s in particular it really isn’t very significant in terms of the death rate increase from obesity.

Whereas a vaccine will cut that risk of hospitalization or death down by up to 95%.

I realise you think COVID is the only thing that can kill people, but this is why you’re getting your numbers completely and horribly wrong.

And again: I’m not talking about obesity. As I said, I use the word ‘fat’ as shorthand for a more complicated metabolic disorder.

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Then what are we talking about…look at the title …If you want to talk about the obesity problem go open another thread !

You’re suggesting that a COVID vaccine reduces your risk of death. For most people, it does not, to any noticeable degree. The reason is that dying of COVID is already a vanishingly rare possibility for people who are healthy.


It’s been almost two years since we were informed that a lockdown/mask-up/ double-jab program was necessary to save mankind from itself.

The vast majority of the world has not yet been double-vaxxed for Covid. We could have spent that time becoming healthy whilst waiting for those jabs.

Instead of, “If you go outside, people WILL die!” the government messages could have said, “If you don’t lose weight, you WILL die of Covid!”

So, why didn’t they? The second slogan is more scientific than the first, way less crazy. They already know that being overweight and obese weakens one’s immune system and makes one susceptible to all types of disease and viruses. No need for Covid to come along and bring that info to the table (filled with KFC buckets).

If people had have been informed, way back at the start of the pandemic, that being overwight and obese was an extremely significant high risk factor in becoming severely ill or dying from Covid, then quite possibly a lot of that suffering could have been avoided. We could have improved the world’s health a massive amount in the past two years, using a fraction of the money and resources spent on all manner of ridiculous and unscientific “protection measures.” Measures that have since been proven to merely exacerbate the Covid problem - weakening people mentally and physically. That money could have been funnelled into “mandating health,” if any government so chose to do so. But they didn’t. Two years is a long time to provide to get healthy. Are you saying that no one can improve their health at all in two years?

Two years waiting for your jab, could have been time spent getting fit and healthy. By the time you’re due for your second jab you could have beome free of diabetes, lost 10-20 kg, simply through changing diet and exercising more.

If you could get outside and exercise, of course.

Instead, a climate of fear was created, on purpose, and the population was disempowered. They were encouraged to be dependent not on themselves, but on Big Pharma/ govt., instead of concentrating on and given resources to make themselves fit and healthy, better able to protect themselves form Covid. We were told, “Just stay at home, don’t run around, just order-in and get fat and drunk. We’ll send the jabs!”

Freedoms to even become healthy (gyms, parks) were taken away, and people thereby became even more susceptible to Covid. They became fatter and more unhealthy, mentally and physically. Many now probably requiring more and more Covid jabs and other medication, for life, solely due to government Covid measures themselves.

Since the start of the pandemic, 4.4 million people have died of obesity-related diseases. Covid’s at 4.5m.

This is a discussion about vaccines, their usefulness, relevance and effectiveness, in context. It’s not a mindless ‘pro-vaccine thread.’ Without accepting the scientific research linking obesity and Covid susceptibility, one is doomed to simply sound like a fanatic, only having some childish slogans to foolishly repeat.

Covid vaccines are not the solution to underlying health issues that exacerbate one’s susceptibility to Covid. Not at all. One should get jabbed if one wants to, but to ignore the other factors, or take zero action to challenge those comorbidities, condemns one to become impotent, in the sense that one becomes overreliant on others such as govt./ pharmaceutical companies to ensure one’s health and safety.

Better to have a more balanced approach to this pandemic. Get jabbed if you want, but also improve your health.



Bollocks. You assholes need to stop making out that it’s so bloody complicated.

So what. That still isnt even close to the protection somebody gets from a vaccine.

What do you think is the risk of death for (a) a fat, vaccinated 50-year-old and (b) an unvaccinated 50-year old who is metabolically healthy? Put some numbers on it. Ballpark figures are fine.

They are in the chart above. Not factoring for vaccination .
.Then you just check vaccination efficacy rates.

If you’re overweight and obese, vaccines are less effective.

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No, they’re not. All-cause mortality, please.

What’s the likelihood that the fat guy and the slim guy will be dead next year? I don’t care what kills them; dead is dead.

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What is your definition of “Fat” ?

That’s not the topic of this thread.

You are getting a lot of leeway here veering off course…

So do you have any numbers? Really, ballpark numbers are OK. I’m not expecting you to be precise with things that are inherently hard to define.


As I said, I’m using ‘fat’ as shorthand for ‘people with metabolic syndrome’. It’s possible to be fat and not have (advanced) m.s. because getting fat is essentially a defence mechanism against metabolic meltdown; people who “can’t” get fat tend to get sicker, quicker, when exposed to a poor diet for years on end. It’s also possible, therefore, to have m.s. while not being fat. Nevertheless, there’s a fair amount of overlap.

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There’s not much to be gained discussing vaccines with someone who doesn’t even believe that attempting to improve one’s own personal health whilst waiting for those jabs, is a worthwhile endeavour.

Or who doesn’t even believe, despite all evidence, that doing so will absolutely assist that individual in becoming less susceptible to Covid, jab or no jab.

(Vaccine necessity and/or efficacy for any particular demographic nothwithstanding!) :wink:

A balanced and informed approach to vaccines - and the entire pandemic - is best. Otherwise one ends up sounding like a fanatic, reduced to repeating childish slogans and comparing sack size. We’re all adults here and we shouldn’t be trying to force the vaccine on anyone, nor to silence anyone who seeks a balanced approach to the pandemic, nor silence those who don’t want the vaccine and see no need for themselves to take it.

I’ve noticed a few links to articles that cry, “Covid denier dies of Covid! (Ha!) Their last words, ‘Take the vaccine! I was wrong!’” These articles are smug and mean-spirited.

And then, after reading those articles, one usually one finds that they had underlying healh issues, mainly of being overweight, or obesity-related. Should they have taken the jab? Maybe. I’m not saying they shouldn’t. That should be their choice. But if we really also wanted to help that person live the healthiest life they could, then why not also work on those underlying issues as well? Could have been two years of mandated good health. That would have assisted them in fending off any future low-immune system illnesses and diseases, including Covid, and make them less reliant on meds for their other obesity-related issues.

An overweight or obese ‘Covid-denier/ anti-vaxxer’ and an overweight or obese ‘pro-vaxxer’ seem to have a lot in common. Denial.

From the CDC, today:

Children and teens gained weight faster during the COVID-19 pandemic, with the rate of body mass index increase nearly doubling amid the pandemic compared to a pre-pandemic period, according to the CDC’s Sept. 17 Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report.

More than 432,000 people between the ages of 2 and 19 were included in the study. Researchers looked at longitudinal trends in BMI both before and during the pandemic.

They found the rate of BMI increase approximately doubled from 0.052 prepandemic to 0.100 during the pandemic period, with children who were overweight or obese before the pandemic experiencing the sharpest increases. Children between the ages of 6 and 11 saw the sharpest increase in their rate of BMI change compared to other age groups.

Additionally, the report found the proportion of children with obesity rose from 19.3 percent in August 2019 to 22.4 percent a year later.

“During the COVID-19 pandemic, children and adolescents spent more time than usual away from structured school settings, and families who were already disproportionately affected by obesity risk factors might have had additional disruptions in income, food, and other social determinants of health,” the report said. “As a result, children and adolescents might have experienced circumstances that accelerated weight gain.”


Some different strains of conversation here don’t seem to sit well together. I started two more specific threads.

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5 posts were merged into an existing topic: Coronavirus vaccination: pros, cons, alternatives