Coronavirus vaccine in Taiwan

“wimps”. Nice.
The world’s population are now experimental mice for all these vaccines.
The only thing missing is your piece of cheese in your cage.

It’s not nice. It’s just a fact.

Oh, so you’d prefer COVID and the world remaining on virtual lockdown because you’re terrified of some 0.0001% chance of a clot?

Yes, it’d be great if we could get some decent cheese in Taiwan, but I definitely feel like I’m in a damn cage here since I can’t leave the country.

Have fun being scared.

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Ha ha ha. Your reaction to the post shows a lot about you.

The way I see it, we all die one way or another. At least I die doing my part in protecting people by being vaccinated. Even if that turns out to be false, and the conspiracists win, I still win by personal principle. And I die living a more convenient life traveling wherever I want in a world that would favor those who got the vaccine–though not promised, I’d rather have this option than becoming a hermit in my apartment. Or spending so much on full quarantine processes.

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Aren’t countries suspending AZ because we don’t really know what the risk is in various populations?

FFS even the Philippines has suspended AZ. When poor countries are hitting pause but Taiwan isn’t it shows just how desperately behind the curve Taiwan is with the vaccine situation…

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I think part of it is they’re overreacting and I think part of it is politics. Vaccines have almost become nationalized and the EU doesn’t like the UK-produced one (AZ) due to Brexit.

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I don’t think a poor country like the Philippines cares about Brexit. It isn’t an overreaction to press pause on something when there’s a risk that you haven’t yet quantified…

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I don’t think a poor country like the Philippines cares about Brexit. It isn’t an overreaction to press pause on something when there’s a risk that you haven’t yet quantified…

Australia is also not known for particularly caring or not caring about Brexit and nevertheless they limited the age range for AstraZeneca

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Philippines policy on anything is rarely based on logic. Their “management” of the crisis would have been a goldmine of comedy material if it hadn’t had such disastrous consequences (including, I suspect, a lot of deaths).

It’s interesting how people view risks. The chance of dying from an AZ blood clot is very small; according to @Shui’s article, 1 per 100,000. That’s even lower than your risk of death on contracting COVID-19 (~1 per 1000 for under 30s). But it appears that people view elective risks differently from ‘natural’ risks - nobody wants to play Russian roulette with a vaccine even when there are 100,000 chambers in the gun.

I suspect there’s the added worry of “but what if that isn’t the only risk? What if there’s something the regulators haven’t noticed?”

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False

The uptake of vaccines shows that most people aren’t scared of the vaccine.

Vaccine cowardice is limited to a small handful of bedwetters who, unfortunately, have a loud voice thanks to the prevalence of social media.

Luckily, most people aren’t taking them seriously.

I’d have AZ today if I could.

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  1. In countries with a small risk of covid infection, these are quite sizeable numbers. In Taiwan this would for example mean over 200 deaths if you vaccinated the entire population. About 50 people died in the recent tragic train accident. The train accident is horrible and these likely deaths should just be ignored? Something does not seem to make sense here.

  2. For Western countries the choice is not between vaccinating with AZ and not vaccinating, but using AZ for those people where this risk of side effects does not exist. Hence limiting the age groups as most of them do.

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Indeed. In the UK it would be several hundred. Too large a number to be brushed under the rug.

But this is why I suggested that people have a problem with “should”. What is it that you want? Do you want to take your chances with COVID-19? Or do you want to take your chances with a vaccine? Because there is no ideal solution, no path that carries zero risk. What “should” happen is not one of the choices on the table.

The other vaccines might have no important side-effects. A few years from now, we’ll find out if that’s the case. The problem is that the risk is unquantifiable: uncertainty is not the same thing as probability. We can only make some educated guesses.

Bear in mind that one possible “side effect” is that mass vaccination might affect the evolutionary trajectory of the virus itself. The experts say it won’t, but again, that’s just an educated guess.

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I’m hoping the AZ vaccine supply becomes more plentiful if less people are taking it overseas or even here.

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200 deaths would be tragic (and that’s a HUGE and unproven hypothetical), but an acceptable toll to fully inoculate the country against the worst pandemic in a century. Just because we haven’t been hit by COVID yet, doesn’t mean we won’t ever get hit by it if things continue on like this. It would sweep through like wildfire with how aged the population is here. And like I said before, birth control pills and other prescriptions carry similar or even higher risks.

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The thing about AZ is it’s low maintenance and doesn’t need to be frozen unlike Pfizer/Moderna. So it’s easy to transport and store. So huge developing areas like parts of India and some countries in Africa would really depend on this vaccine.

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So what’s happening with the availability of vaccines in Taiwan for folks outside the designated priority list (aka “out-of-pocket” vaccines)?

A report in today’s Taipei Times has some interesting details:

  • perhaps 10,000 vaccines would be made available for this purpose
  • there would still be specific requirements to receive them (an example mentioned by Minister Chen is the need to travel abroad to study)
  • an official announcement with more details will be made next week “at the soonest”

Source: COVID-19: CECC plans out-of-pocket shots for eligible people - Taipei Times

Guy

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My desire to get vaccinated in Taiwan in the short term has kind of disappeared as long as Taiwan is safe. AstraZeneca, even if I could get it, I would not want due to the blood clotting issues. Seems an unnecessary risk to take unless you are in the retirement age group if there is practically no covid risk in Taiwan and you do not urgently need to travel. And AstraZeneca is currently the only thing available.

My entire family in the US is now fully vaccinated. Should I go back and get vaccinated there (Pfizer or Moderna)? I theoretically could. I qualify. But I fear being exposed to the virus between leaving Taiwan and getting my first jab. And if I catch Covid in the US, I’d be screwed. No insurance.

In the meantime, who knows how long until I can get the AstraZeneca jab here?

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Best thing to stay here I think. In the highly unlikely event of a devastating covid outbreak here, you could still go back. This way you only incur the travel risk if you really need to and moreover the risk then is probably less since the more people have been vaccinated in the U.S., the less will be your risk of catching covid there before you are protected by the vaccination

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How old are you?