Could dao jiao/ma dzu be guilty of religious harrassment?

legal question:
think about it: we, all of us in taiwan, are forced to listen to other people’s religion on the street whether we want to or not. if christianity made as many parades and as much noise as dao jiao/ma dzu does, they would have made religious parades illegal a long time ago. is this a possibilty in the future, that forward thinking taiwanese might try to press for this kind of law in order to secure their property values and owners rights?

clarification: if i don’t want a ji tong dancing around my house, isn’t that my right? i don’t like looking out my patio and seeing a man hit himself with a sword. couldn’t they do that in someone’s yard? couldn’t they ask first if i wanted such a “blessing” bestowed on my house (i went and got my Bible and held it at them). i was terrified of having an idol brought past my door, because to me Madzu looks like Satan.

i’m thinking of painting some crosses on my door to let people know that this house does not participate in that. but then again, i’d be forcing others to see my religous beliefs everyday, wouldn’t I? delimma.

i don’t walk the street thumping people with a Bible. i would be arrested. why should dao jiao/ma dzu be allowed to do the equivalent?
playing devil’s advocate here. this is a legal question.

Anything to get them to shut up is fine by me.

I’m actually quite fond of the street parades, and envy you for apparently being located in an area where they do a lot of them. On the other hand, I wish that re-education teams of Scientific Atheists would teach the poor ignorant souls not to burn Hell Money, patronize fortune-tellers, follow Tai-Chi or Chinese medicine, or follow all the other obvious superstitions.

I see several issues here, none of which seem likely to be resolved in your favor.

(1) Noise etc. Taiwan has a much higher tolerance threshhold for hell-raising cacophony–not only street parades but politicians’ sound-trucks, street-stall barkers, public announcement systems, and ordinary people screaming at each other from house to house. (I had to laugh when I read Carl Jung call Eastern religions “quietistic.” They like firecrackers, for God’s sake!)

(2) Exposure to unwanted religious contact. It’s not a violation of your rights, to see me worshipping something you don’t approve of. It might be impolite, depending on the circumstances, but we’re dealing with established practices that were (a lot of the time, anyway) going on way before we got here.

For comparison’s sake, I live across the street from a house church that shouts “Amen! Amen!” every Sunday morning. Worse yet, they don’t seem to know how to pronounce it. Ah well, live and let live.

(3) Public nuisances. But surely there are limits to how much anybody is allowed to impose upon the patience of their neighbors…? What these limits might be, I couldn’t possibly guess.

Some of those religious rituals can sometimes be quite intimidating to uninitiated outsiders. However things are changing and activities of a more earthy appeal are being worked into the religious fabrics. As shown here;

taiwannews.com.tw/etn/news_c … ws_Society :slight_smile:

[quote=“theposter”]legal question:
think about it: we, all of us in taiwan, are forced to listen to other people’s religion on the street whether we want to or not. if christianity made as many parades and as much noise as dao jiao/ma dzu does, they would have made religious parades illegal a long time ago. is this a possibilty in the future, that forward thinking Taiwanese might try to press for this kind of law in order to secure their property values and owners rights?[/quote]
I suggest that you make an appropriate posting in this thread –
WISHLIST for legal rights in Taiwan
forumosa.com/taiwan/viewtopi … 3&start=50

What do you mean, “if Christianity…”. Taoist might make noise in the streets, but they don’t go around suppressing the religious impulses of others, they don’t demand that unbelievers modify their private behavior or give up their civil rights to satisfy the urgent need of Christianity to control the minds and bodies of others, they don’t mount formal opposition to science, they don’t conspire with the political right, they don’t pretend that their holy books are actual history, and most of all, they don’t legitimate their ethical behavior in a transcendent authority, the devastating problem of all the authority-worshipping beliefs like Communism, Facism, Nazism, Islam and other -isms that have done so much harm to the world. The worst excess of Taoism is occasional noise in the streets. The worst excess of Christianity is a trail of dead bodies that goes back two thousand years, and a world littered with suppressed, destroyed and damaged cultures.

Frankly, one of the best things about Taiwan is that we are not forced to participate in or acknowledge the religions of others. As an atheist I enjoy living in Taiwan’s easygoing religious environment. Taiwan’s religious tolerance should be an example to “more developed” countries. I see no reason why such processions should be dealt with, especially coming from a professed Christian.

Vorkosigan

Well put Vork… The OP should just call the EPA and get the noise levels checked. Some venues in Taiwan have guys outside with sound metres making sure that the venues are under the noise limits.

Anyways a lot of religious festivals creat noise. It’s not always pleasent but that’s life.

It’s up to us quiet athiests to show all those religously inclined how not to be nosy.

Anyways those bible asher also come to your door early in the morning tring to convince you that your non existant sould needs saving. Bahhumbug !!! :unamused: :unamused:

You got a guitar and an amp. I suggest using that. A nice rousing rendition of “Abide with Me” complete with screaming feedback should make your point admirably.

actually this is an EPA issue. and the EPA in taiwan will prosecute. i’ve found that out. the real problem has always been just getting started, going around talking to neighbors and getting them to see that noise is a problem not to be tolerated.

i think starting a campaign here in chu shan to limit the noise from the garbage trucks and miao trucks is the right way to go.

BY THE WAY:

this evening in jia yi, the garbage truck had a REALLY PLEASANT TONE AND VOLUME!!

JIA YI NEVER CEASES TO AMAZE ME!!!

by the way: Christianity is the least noise making religion in taiwan. the fact the the West is both Christian and quiet is not a coincidence. and anyway, a lot of taiwanese people think dao jiao is hokey, hick, and a bother. you’ll notice the higher up the economic/education scale people go, the less dao jiao, as well as betel nuts, gangsters, etc.

I recall a Baptist church that was battling its neighbors over what they felt was their God-given right to electronically amplify their singing (which was really, really awful.)

Yeah, a lot of young people don’t like Taoism, or whatever the name of their religion is. (My parents-in-law think they’re Buddhists.) That’s unfortunate, IMHO. Yeah, it’s got a lot of problems, but I am impressed by the cultural stuff (like street parades) and wouldn’t want that to die out. I guess they just need a reformation, like that nun did for Buddhism. Surely it wouldn’t hurt the religion any to get the Ba Jia Jiang kids to stop taking drugs…

Anyway, if you’re going to be lobbying for noise controls, I (PR whiz that I am) suggest you avoid telling the targets of your campaign how stupid their religion is.

agreed. like you said ,we wouldn’t want parades canceled. just the noise level controlled. the EPA is interested in this stuff. it’s just that nobody ever calls them.

case in point: those assholes in the factory blasting their tai yu guh . i called the cops. cops told them to turn it off. cops also encouraged me to call the EPA. EPA said to report any bad smells coming from that factory and noises too. they should have stopped operating a long time ago.

hey, taiwan ain’t all bad.