What to do? The key for the United States
[quote=“fred smith”]
We would have to draft a formal declaration of war
[quote=“fred smith”]What to do? The key for the United States
I think Fred is on to something. Those who aided and harbored the 9/11 terrorists should be held responsible. Bomb Saudi Arabia and bomb Washington for supporting them.
I do not think that is exactly it, but I am amazed at the moral equivalence expressed by so many on this thread and others. Is the US just another terrorist? Are we no better than Islamofascists? Is George Bush just another Hitler? Well, if that is truly the case, then what is to stop us from acting in said fashion?
But in the meantime, I think that a few targeted responses may spread the message that the citizens of these Muslim and Arab countries should be on notice that innocents among them may suffer as well as terrorists in any retaliatory strike. It would be in their best interests and those of their families to turn over and report any suspected militants as well as to refuse to countenance their terrorist activities.
Why not draw up such a plan? Better than trying to figure something out later.
[quote=“fred smith”]
But in the meantime, I think that a few targeted responses may spread the message that the citizens of these Muslim and Arab countries should be on notice that innocents among them may suffer as well as terrorists in any retaliatory strike. It would be in their best interests and those of their families to turn over and report any suspected militants as well as to refuse to countenance their terrorist activities.
Why not draw up such a plan? Better than trying to figure something out later.[/quote]
So if a terrorist enters Germany and leaves he is passing through
If a terrorist enters an Arab country outside that of Saudi Arabia (where he probabily came from ) and leaves, the country is guilty of harboring and aiding this terrorist
So it is the responsiblity to weed out the terrorists… if the country does not do this by providing proof, then they are guilty of aiding or harboring these terrorists
I guess this way works better… at least the US does not need to or have to rely on its own intelligent or intelligent agencies or their ability to get correct intelligence ( a hard lesson learned by the WMD or WMD program debacle)
Its sort of along the lines of " find me a terrorist else I will invade you"
Maybe we should help all the fucked up arab nations to get their shit together instead of bombing them into submission.
Problem there is they are all tribal…
To be honest if the Arabs were really so cohesive as they claim… why are they not doing more to push an agenda for Palestine
You got the Arab league… everybody meets… they talk… have a resolution… go home and do nothing… sounds just like the UN
Then you got Sunni’s talking about their Arab brothers and then they go slaughter the Shites…
They have got so much internal squabbling that they can’t get it together… then how can we get it together for them
Fred, you have not answered my question. In the 9/11 event, it was the US that had also aided and abetted the terrorists, so it that was to reoccur, what penalty should be taken against the US?
The US government did not willfully and voluntarily aid these terrorists. This is very different from what the Syrians, Saudis, Iranians, Pakistanis, Taliban, et al and previously the Libyans were doing. Don’t “obfuscate” the issue.
As to helping the fucked up Arab nations instead of bombing them, um, who exactly have we bombed? Libya, Sudan, Afghanistan and Iraq and how were these bombs targeted, etc. and what was the end result? More freedom in three and pressure on the fourth to stop persecuting people in Darfur. In the meantime, what has anyone else accomplished? Therefore the plan should be developed taking those factors into consideration. While various posters would like to pretend that this is somehow difficult to do or fraught with nuances, such is really not the case. Syria, Iran, Pakistan and previously Libya and Iraq were sponsoring and supporting terrorism. That must change though Syria and Iran are not getting the picture. Just this week, two Iranian agents were caught trying to blow something up in Iraq.
Good thing Broon Ale and the British sent the Iranians such a clear message about how such “militant actions” will be treated. Bend over again Broon Ale. Want another. Don’t forget to say please.
So Fred,
do you think the rise of terrorism from these Arab countries against western interests is a result of the west’s dabbling in their countries… else is dabbling in their countries resulting in more terrorism against the west i.e terrorism was always in these countries but with western intervention it just redirected this terrorism on the west?
TNT:
Whatever. I don’t care. We will do what we must to neutralize the threat. We have done so in Afghanistan. Don’t hear too much whining about that do we, and now that sovereignty is transferred in Iraq, I suspect that it too will be pushed off the front pages by Sudan and other crises. We have won. We got what we wanted. What makes you think that is bad for the Middle East or global stability? Wait till we get rid of Syria, then see how the equation changes. From Istanbul to Baghdad and from Baghdad to Cairo, except for the Palestinians, a new stability will emerge. We can contain Iran for the time being until its people rise up and overturn that heinous regime.
[quote=“fred smith”]TNT:
Whatever. I don’t care. We will do what we must to neutralize the threat. [quote]
The Arab World???
Fred, unless it can be proven that the Governments, Royal families etc of the countries mentioned or any country for that matter have personally ordered or actively been involved in harbouring, aiding and abetting terrorism then sorry you have no standing.
Just because ordinary people within the country have helped terrorism does not give the US the right to bomb or whatever other preemptive measures would be called for.
If that were the case, then you had better be ready to take virtually every country in the world, including the US as well.
And thus your question regarding the US Government’s culpability for the 911 attacks is irrelevant.
Did we target civilians when we bombed Afghanistan, Sudan or Iraq? Did some civilians die? Yes.
Are Iraq and Afghanistan better off today? Yes. Is Libya a more responsible world actor? yes. Has the US pressure on Sudan seen improvement there by ending the civil war in the south? yes. So I think that we are smart enough to figure out how to target those attacks to ensure that our message gets through without too much collateral damage. What’s wrong with that?
This all or nothing black or white approach of the left is so bewildering. ALL violence is wrong. ALL wars are wrong. Give me a break.
That’s what we’re doing, starting in Iraq.
Fred, let me change one or two words in your statement, then we can see the right are just as wacky.
This all or nothing black or white approach of the right is so bewildering. ALL violence is right. ALL wars are right. Give me a break.
Just because some of us express an opinion that is not consistent with your own does not make us left of centre, it just makes us left of your own radical right wing position. 
Traveller:
Disagree. When has the United States ever been ALL violent ALL wrong or ALL about killing. This is the caricature that is painted of it by feckless Europeans sitting on their asses doing nothing except talking. I asked Rascal a long time ago and now I will ask you. When has Europe stopped a major coonflict since WWII? Where have its forces been instrumental in stopping a conflict or aggression where one or both parties was not interested in “talking?” Then where would you say since WWII the US has been an out and out aggressor with absolutely no reason for its actions? We very deliberately thought out how to target and take down the Taliban and ditto for Saddam. We literally begged France, Germany, Russia and the UN to get involved or at least get out of the way, but given the money involved and the corruption involved, I think that we know the true reason for the “opposition” in Europe to the effort in Iraq and once again I think that these nations in Europe have displayed the same shameless lack of conscious that has characterized their foreign policies since Westphalia.
Fred, back to topic, stop trying to read into a single response, the version for all other events. Are you now going to try and turn this thread into an anti european diatribe as well, it really is getting boring. The record is stuck in the same groove, give it a thump.
Did i say the US was ALL war, violence etc, no, my comment was about the right, i did not even mention any specific countries or areas.
What has whether the Europeans stopped a major conflict or not got to do with the counter attack plan in the event of another 9/11, come on Fred, at least try to keep to the topic of the thread you started.
If you and TM really have to adopt your current stances, then perhaps we should have a new forum, just for the two of you, called the Praise the US forum, then you can shout about how good the US is to your hearts content. Everyone else should be banned though, for reasons of sanity.