I never said you had no formal qualifications, Bob. Don
[quote=“E-clectic”][quote]
Nowhere in this thread have I even mentioned my English-teaching qualifications. Please show me where I have. The fact that the two of you are now boasting of your own suggests you feel somewhat insecure.
Constructive criticism? [/quote]
Let’s get the thread back on track. ToeSave wants suggestions. I
I don’t have any formal qualifications in the least. Unless a high school diploma and a bad back from construction work count as qualifications these days. Somehow I doubt it.
What I do have however is a tremendous amount of experience “teaching” conversation classes to adult Taiwanese. What I can tell you about them is that they are dying for a more natural language learning experience. This is a piece of genius on their part however I don’t think many of them have the slightest idea how to give themselves this experience. That is our job.
The problem I have with a syllabus is that it assigns ahead of time the experience to be had. You know in Chinese there is some confusion over whether “ziran” means natural or spontaneous. You see where I am going with this right? For a lot of people here it seems like it is a lot more interesting, fun and effective to create a situation where communication is required and then letting them squirm a tad before helping them to achieve their goals. When something really useful is discovered through this process it should be written down. Everything should be tape recorded in my opinion. Of course you have prepared youreself mentally for this by anticipating the vocabulary that will be required and perhaps by learning it in Mandarin.
To be honest the scuba classes and such don’t sound like such a great idea to me unless the participants are interested in improving their blub blub blub but no matter. Holidaying together with your students sounds great. However I am sure there will be prolonged negotiations over renumerationor for this kind of work. And it may turn out that some of the teaching requirements in such a situtaion turn out to be somewhat more intimate than would noramally be expected. Some sensitivity might best be advised when establishing credentials for this kind of work. I’m glad it isn’t my job.
Creating a conversational learning environment, I believe the only 2 effective ways is (1) 1 on 1 tutoring, or as you say (2) some other intimate type of (western) setting to facilitate conversation. That precludes alot of classrom style of ESL teaching. On the other hand, it would be important to know if learning in a classroom setting is something they’d like, prefer, avoid etc? I think these kinds of people, classroom setting would not be ideal, but who knows unless you ask.
You may also think about grouping students together based on subject matter that they’d like to talk about. Perhaps being business folks, they might want to discuss business topics in English. Maybe you might want to get some subject matter expert in these areas to have a “round-table discussion” of 4-5 participants and 1 English speaking teacher/moderator. Have it at a bar, lounge, cafe, some place where you can have some privacy. Perhaps even at their office’s conference room?
Such a program will create an intimate and familiar setting that would allow these individuals to feel comfortable enough to practice and learn English.
E-clectic…thanks for continuing to question things. I really do appreciate that. Maybe I am being obtuse with describing things.
Credentials:
Still unclear why this is important as whatever my credentials are, they were good enough to get this gig. I am dealing with highly intelligent, very successful Taiwanese business people. They went into a serious bidding war with my current employer to lure me away from him. My current employer went to the mat to try and keep me. I can see why too. After only a month working for him, all my classes are selling out and I have waiting lists to get in them. He made an offer that made me physically ill this week trying to find a way to refuse him. So, if my “credentials” are good enough for these LaoBans, why can’t you accept them? As someone wrote above, Isieh I think, being a good teacher is like being a good actor. Anyone can sight-read Shakespeare, but make it understood to say a bunch a half-bagged wedding guests during a toast? Get my drift? It’s not the message, but the messenger.
But if you must know, I have 3 years experience teaching English in Taiwan and over 10 years experience coaching kids in athletic and artistic endeavours. I have produced professional and fringe theatre and been a tour guide and private valet to thousands of high end toursits.
As for teaching ESL, I have taught in systems heavily mired in Confucian methodolgy, chiefly memorize spelling and sentence patterns. I had kids that had been studying English for 9-10 years but still couldn’t muster the yonchi (courage) to give me directions to a 7-11 or tell me what they wanted to be when they grew up. Confucianism beats on the Taiwanese people’s confidence like a big brother on a drum during dragonboat festival, without the lovely percussive results. It starts in every class they take from grade 1 thru high school. They make a mistake they get laughed at. They make 3 mistakes and a phone call is placed to the parents suggesting a beating. They get beat. They study another 20 hours a week (on top of the 30 they already put into the books) and manage a 95% on a midterm. They get beat.
WTF man?
How the hell are they gonna find the courage to make mistakes when they are 20? 30? 40?
I have also worked for one of the most successful (for now) chains of adult language institutes. One that specializes in taking a “natural approach” to learning. In fact, this is mostly lipservice and hype where they are concerned, but during my tenure there, I asked and listened and discussed this problem with 1000’s of students. My passion alone for the subject is all the credentials I need. I am a manager. I don’t need to know anything. That’s why I hire you. I need only motivate you to dig deeper, travel further outside your own box. Listen man, I am so far outside my box, I keep a condo there. Care to drop by?
ToeExpounds
Bob is usually pretty funny, but sometimes he can be a heal.
I’ve never been in the box. Seriously, you guys are talking about creating a learning environment free of administrative pressure. I have never done anything else. There is an agent in my life but whatever she says I do the opposite. Has worked well so far.
I don’t have much of a problem with classrooms except the way they are decorated. A learning environment should be a pleasant and interesting place. Most of the classrooms you see around here look like the inside of a white box. They do however usually have desks and a whiteboard. These I very much appreciate so long as there is still lots of room to get up and move around.
I would love to be able to create my own learning space. It would be painted in warm colours and filled with art and attractive aids to learning. One wall would be reserved for graffiti. And I would have a television, dvd/cd players, big mirrors, tape recorders, video cameras and lots of books… Hang on a sec…sounds like my place!
When The Skin of our Teeth by Thornton Wilder first hit the stage, audiences were shocked to find themselves part of the show. This play is one of the first dramas to “break the 4th wall”. The 4th wall is the wall we peer thru as an audience, like the screen on your TV. Wilder broke the mold of theatrical convention and since then, drama has become more challenging to audiences. I remember attending a play where the entire audience ended up on a busy Vancouver street bleating like sheep at the passing cars. What an experience.
When I speak of breaking the mold in an ESL classroom, I am talking about that demarcation line, that 4th wall that exists (traditionally) between students and educators. This is the “mold” I want to break. Instead of a lecture podium, whiteboard and notebooks, I want to put the students “on-stage”. I want the "teachers’ to sit in amongst the students, leading from within.
In no way do I assume I know more than thousands of linguists, cunning tho they may be. However, if current standards of English acquisition in Taiwan were to be used as a measuring stick of success, then I’d say it’s high time for some “mold breaking”.
I don’t claim to have the answers. I only wish to ask the right questions and guide my team in effective, obviational teaching methods.
ToeDrones
A lot of bickering going on about teaching blah blah blah. I got the impression that Toe Save was looking for ways to activate the language that students have already learned.
Not much point teaching them more if they can’t use what they know already, is there?
I do a lot of work with adults, and mostly it’s about building confidence and fluency. They can identify the adverbial clauses of infinity in past pejorative malarkey phrases (provided it’s a multiple choice or fill-in-the-blanks test) but ask them what the weather’s doing and they are mystified. Get them involved in some activity which takes their mind off ‘getting the right answer’, and the language produced actually gets better. So, in a sense, Toe is on the right track.
Problem-solving team activities would have a double benefit - they promote use of English in a natural way, and they do all that good ‘character/team-building’ stuff so beloved of executive culture in the west. Personally, I’m all for it.
But someone has to sell this to the guys writing the cheques. And those people have their own ideas about what constitutes useful or effective education. My experiences with corporate HR departments have been depressing to say the least. They will want to see your language syllabus. They will want clear teaching objectives and lists of the vocabulary/techniques you will be teaching. They will want copies of all the material you plan to use, handouts, and maybe even the workbook that you’ll be giving students to take away.
I doubt that any Taiwanese pen-pusher will see any benefit in spending the money necessary to send people sailing, diving etc. Selling the other advantages, beyond language, is going to be tough. On the other hand, if you’re offering something that helps the boss gain face, by being cool or fashionable, then maybe you’ll do very well.
But you’re going to need great sales people.
I demo’d at BDC a while back. I sat on the floor because there was no furniture while someone rummaged around in search of something to give me a drink in. Then I improvised a lecture-ette to the office staff, who sat on the floor. There were two of them and they were both new hires, fresh out of college.
Maybe they had other people working there, but I didn’t meet them. And two newbies aren’t going to have a lot of success selling high-end courses of dubious value. They are going to need lots of experience and personal connections to make things happen for you.
So are you seriously suggesting that I (or someone) invest in a boat, go through all the hassle of trying to operate it reasonably legally, and then wait for someone who doesn’t even have chairs in their guest space to turn it into a profit-making asset?
Sorry dude, but I think you’d be better off staying where you are. On the off-chance that I’m wrong though, may I suggest that you contact Jean-Marc at Freshtreks.com? He has tons of activities you can promote. All you need to do is invite some good teachers along.
Toe you are no doubt riding the next wave in ESL. Call it right brain learning. Call it ESL with balls. Call it what you will but don’t forget to call me.
Thanks Stragbasher…good insight. Yes, your experience at BDC left alot to be desired. However, I have yet to dust the floor with my bottom. The people you didn’t meet are the ones selling the “ideas” to the graphite commandos. Thanks for the advice about staying put. I would, but I can’t handle being your boss. Just kidding. I really want to be your boss.
Thanks Bob…as I said, this thread is preliminary at best. Give me a few weeks to acclimatize to the posting.
ToeSave
I wouldn’t let Stragbasher discourage you too much Toe. I have taught at quite a few big name international companies and nobody ever asked me for a syllabus.
Nothing will discourage me, least of all some aimless, shiftless hitch hiker, galactical or otherwise.
I truly believe he has no idea where his towel is.
They don’t usually ask the teacher. They ask the sales people that sell the teacher. Wouldn’t you want to see what you were spending your moneu on?
To answer my own question, one of the world’s largest companies hired me without any material, any syllabus, or any clear teaching objectives. It took half a dozen sessions just to find out what it was they wanted me to teach.
But that was one of those ‘hire a foreigner to solve our problem’ situations rather than a ‘I wasn’t aware that I had a problem that could be solved by getting wet and wild with a foreigner’ situation.
And don’t worry about Toe Save getting discouraged. He has no sense, and won’t be discouraged by reason. 
It’s interesting that Stragbasher mentioned Jean-Marc as there’s a man who went against the grain as is doign well for it. I interviewed him last year and he said that when he thought of starting an adventure company a few years ago everyone said he was crazy. But he saw before others did how the two day weekend would revolutionize leisure in Taiwan. he also saw how eager Taiwanese were becoming for healthy outdoor adventure. You’d be surprised to know how much of his business is with private companies who send their staff out for hikes and such.
If companies are paying for adventure outings why not English outings?
Taiwan is a fast changing place and even though I have lived here for 8 years and have written a great deal on travel in this country, I would never assume to know all the in’s and out’s. Toe’s backers may very well know exactly what they are doing. In any case it is their money.
Anyway I am not saying a syllabus is a bad idea, just that they didn’t ask me for one. Bloody good thing too.
I can smell, I can see, I can taste, I can hear and I can feel your jealousy.
ToeThis
Toe Save.
Check your PMs…
cheers
My ideas may be stupid and crazy, but I’ve probably got more of the converse sort of problem–i.e., my ideas are probably boring and have possibly been tried before, and I’m not sure they’re even needed because I don’t know how many Taiwanese lawyers have intentions or prospects of practicing in the English-speaking world. But anyway, here goes:
“Moot court”-type training in the day-to-day intricacies of lawyering–but not just courtrooms–everything one could think of: Mockups of a conference in the judge’s chambers; mockups of filing suits or other pleadings yourself in the courthouse or mailing them in; mockups of giving the job of handling the pleadings to a secretary and then having to answer the secretary’s questions; interacting with other lawyers, over the phone and in person; negotiations; talking to clients, whether great or small; etc.; and all kinds of highly specific things, many of which are judgment calls. Of course, it could also be specific to that person’s field of law.
For me, the main purpose wouldn’t be to train a person in how to handle such situations–for one thing, I didn’t accrue enough experience as a lawyer to be able to train a person in how to do that. The main thing would be to introduce them to the kinds of English and the kinds of affective situations they’re going to encounter in an English-speaking legal culture.
But I don’t think I could do that on my own, and admittedly, my ideas are vague (as well as boring). I’m just throwing it out there.
Now that I think of it, I wish I’d had that kind of training. 
My ideas may be stupid and crazy, but I’ve probably got more of the converse sort of problem–i.e., my ideas are probably boring and have possibly been tried before, and I’m not sure they’re even needed because I don’t know how many Taiwanese lawyers have intentions or prospects of practicing in the English-speaking world. But anyway, here goes:
“Moot court”-type training in the day-to-day intricacies of lawyering–but not just courtrooms–everything one could think of: Mockups of a conference in the judge’s chambers; mockups of filing suits or other pleadings yourself in the courthouse or mailing them in; mockups of giving the job of handling the pleadings to a secretary and then having to answer the secretary’s questions; interacting with other lawyers, over the phone and in person; negotiations; talking to clients, whether great or small; etc.; and all kinds of highly specific things, many of which are judgment calls. Of course, it could also be specific to that person’s field of law.
For me, the main purpose wouldn’t be to train a person in how to handle such situations–for one thing, I didn’t accrue enough experience as a lawyer to be able to train a person in how to do that. The main thing would be to introduce them to the kinds of English and the kinds of affective situations they’re going to encounter in an English-speaking legal culture.
But I don’t think I could do that on my own, and admittedly, my ideas are vague (as well as boring). I’m just throwing it out there.
Now that I think of it, I wish I’d had that kind of training. [/quote]
There ya go…great ideas. Will be in touch with you.
Again guys, I haven’t even started yet, so please stay loose. When I know more, you will. But this post I’ve quoted is EXACTLY (not yelling, emphasizing) why I’ve started this thread.
ToeBeams