Cross-cultural Marriages

Arts & Sciences Culture & History
1

Under the “look long and hard before you leap” category, due diligence before a marriage is very important. Perhaps it is even more important here where the leap into a cross-cultural marriage is much bigger than most, if not all, lovey dovey couples anticipate.

So, for the benefit of star-crossed lovers who are blissfully ignorant of the landmines ahead, could those of you are married or divorced discuss the pitfalls of cross-cultural marriages here in Taiwan?[ul]
[li]What unexpected things pop up to complicate marriages between laowai and Taiwanese? (non visa related)
[/li]
[li]What are the biggest cultural differences you found in your marriage?
[/li]
[li]What are the hardest things to accept or get used to?
[/li]
[li]What were you not prepared to sacrifice when you got married?
What are the biggest compromises you have had to make?
What things has your spouse compromised on / failed to compromise on?
[/li]
[li]Which language do you use for normal, daily communication?
And then which language do you use when arguments/fights erupt?
[/li]
[li]If you eliminated physical attraction from your relationship, what would be left?
[/li]
[li]If you had to do it over again, would you still do it?
[/li]
[li]What key questions should couples ask each other before they take the plunge into matrimony?
[/li]
[li]What single best piece of advice can you give to:
(a) the foreign partner contemplating a mixed marriage, and
(b) the Taiwanese partner contemplating a mixed marriage?[/li][/ul]

2

I don’t have a point of reference for comparison, never having been married before. To me it seems such an intensely personal union that cultural matters don’t have much of an effect. Married people have their own private space that is like a country unto itself.

One piece of advice I remember from Johnny Carson: Never pet a dog that is on fire.

3

[quote]Which language do you use for normal, daily communication?
And then which language do you use when arguments/fights erupt? [/quote]
Our main language of communication is Chinese and we also fight in Chinese, which makes him superior to me most of the time… this is driving me crazy, he’s quite “shuang” about it, but it encourages me to keep working on my Chinese at the same time…

Since our cultural background is so different, I noticed, that I am much more willing to accept things, that I probably would not accept if my boyfriend was from the same cultural background. Whether these are his manners or opinions, I tend to accept them better…

love and friendship as in every relationship

4

Kids’ sleeping quarters. It took forever to move them into their own room.

Not much, really. We were both fairly neutralized (ie, she was somewhat Westernized and I was somewhat westernized) before we got married, so nothing too terribly unexpected so far in the last decade or so.

The biggest scarifice I’ve had to make is a real vacation. Since we’ve been married it’s always been her family or mine (we don’t live near either) during my time off, not leaving much time for “fun” destinations.

[quote]What are the biggest compromises you have had to make?
What things has your spouse compromised on / failed to compromise on? [/quote]
We both try to do what makes each other happiest, so no real culture-related compromises.

[quote]Which language do you use for normal, daily communication?
And then which language do you use when arguments/fights erupt? [/quote]
Her english is better than my Chinese, but still it usually works out to her speaking Chinese to me and me speaking English to her.

Physical attraction??? :laughing:

Yes.

That would depend on what’s important to you. At a minimum you should be aware of each other’s ideas on long-term location (your home country or his/hers). One of my friend’s broke off a long-term relationship when he realized that she would not consider living in the US.

5

Nothing very significant. I had already been exposed to eastern cultures having lived in China before and visited other Asian countries. I also had Asian girlfriends before. She had studied in the United States.

Taiwanese are not given to compulsive decisions that many Americans are.

My religion. Fortunately, we are open-minded and accept each others religious faiths (I am Catholic and she is Buddhist)

[quote]What are the biggest compromises you have had to make?
What things has your spouse compromised on / failed to compromise on?[/quote]
We haven’t run across problems here yet, but with a baby girl on the way, perhaps we will as parents.

[quote]Which language do you use for normal, daily communication?
And then which language do you use when arguments/fights erupt?[/quote]
Well, her English is quite good and my Mandarin is improving and I have started learning Minnanhua so I can speak with her mother. I would say at home, it is 60-40 English-Mandarin with a smattering of Minnanhua. At her home it is almost all Mandarin with a smattering of Minnanhua.

That she is the sweetest, most patient person I have ever met

certainly

I agree with a previous poster that it depends on the couple. If there is a religious difference, sort that out first. Also, financial arrangements should be sorted out. My wife and I took a marriage preparation class presented by the Atlanta Archdiocese before we got married and we both agree that it was extremely beneficial.

[quote]What single best piece of advice can you give to:
(a) the foreign partner contemplating a mixed marriage, and
(b) the Taiwanese partner contemplating a mixed marriage?[/quote]
Make sure you respect the culture and religion of the partner before taking the dive.

6

Seems like only the happy marriages are weighing in.

I;ve been associated with this island for 13 years and seen lots of local-foreigner marriages. My observations are:

[ol][li]A ferocious nasty temper is a really common trait in Taiwanese culture and among Taiwanese females. Spending all ones time in a world dominated by males to the detriment of females tends to have that effect. If I had a nickel for every foreigner I met who complained that their wife concealed her temper until after they were married…
[/li]
[li]Taiwanese females are incredibly possessive and jealous. I have foreign friends whose wives annihilate them if a fem co-worker has a picture taken with them, or if a female calls them at home for any reason.[/li][/ol]

This combo of temper and jealousy can get quite nasty. I have seen marriages hit serious problems because of it.

Good luck with your marriage. My Taiwanese wife and I have a great marriage, so I am very fortunate. But on both sides of a local woman-foreign man marriage there is generally quite a bit of fantasy which often sours, leaving a lot of dissatisfaction. This is often not true of the other kind, and all the Taiwanese-man, foreign woman marriages I know (four or five?) are happy ones. I think there is a good deal less fantasy in those relationships, and a lot more practicality and real love.

We were also lucky, in that my wife views the way Taiwanese handle child-rearing as nothing short of insane, so she readily acceded to early bedtimes for the kids (our kids, 9 and 7, are in bed by 8 every night), time outs instead of beatings, not having TV in our house, breastfeeding and other things I felt were crucial. My in-laws are completely understanding – my FIL was an engineer with extensive experience of foreigners, so we don’t have to deal with lots of the local idiocy (kids on motorcycles without helmets, kids going to bed at midnight at the in-law’s request, kids sleeping with parents, brutal enforcement of tons of homework and make-work, etc). But not everyone will have this wonderful combination of understanding in-laws and flexible and intelligent spouse.

On to education…
that is a BIG problem here. My 9 year old son goes to Morrison at US$9K a year, my daughter is in the local system. This enables us to put my daugter in some Morrison activities, so get her some English. Morrison has some pretty problems…the school ratifies the cliques that the students form, the education is decent but not great…and sooooo expensive. We home-schooled for a while, and found it completely successful, but my wife is uncomfortable with that option. The local school system is extremely destructive of kids during their crucial adolescent years, so when my daughter hits 11 or so we are pulling her out regardless.

Just some random thoughts…

7

Great post Vork,

I’m not married, but the jealousy thing strikes a chord. “I’m only jealous because I love you.” “Really, I just thought you were a pyscho xiaojie”

I’ve known a couple of Western blokes who have married sweet little things, only to have them turn into manipulative bitches from hell.

Another problem I’ve noticed is rearing boys; Taiwanese mothers seem determined to turn them into sissies.

8

Makes me glad we are having a daughter. I am determined that she be a future Georgia Bulldawg and Atlanta Beat soccer star. :smiling_imp:

9

Another problem I’ve noticed is rearing boys; Taiwanese mothers seem determined to turn them into sissies.

Yes, it is my impression too that spoiled, mother dominated boys are common here. I knew a researcher who was writing a dissertation on male sensuality in this culture. I’ll see if I can track it down.

Vorkosigan

10

I think Vork strikes again with his typically incisive, dead-on commentary. From everything I’ve observed among my married friends here, and in my own relationships with local ladies, there are certain common, though not universal tendencies (i.e. going absolutely nuts when upset, emotional co-dependence, and possessiveness and insecurity) among Taiwanese women that have pretty much scared me away from anything of a permanent nature here. Never say never, but I can say probably not. I’m content just to have a caring relationship for a time, and I’m honest about my intentions with my local girfriends.

I also think the children issue is a big one.

I was married for eight years back home. My comments are certainly colored by the experience I had. Not terrible by any means. Actually, I’m grateful for it. But it pretty well convinced me that a healthy marriage over the long term isn’t a strong possibility for most people. I have great admiration for those who pull it off.

11

What makes me feel uncomfortable about marriage to a local girl is this “you marry the girl, you marry the family” idea.
This might have to do with the fact that me and her family are not on the best of terms. However, I still would like to live my own life even if the relationship to her parents was better.

My gf has two elder sisters who are both married and I noticed that the parents interfere quite a lot in their family life, demanding very regular visits and wanting to have a say in the children’s upbringing. And this is where I draw the line and say “I don’t need your meddling into my affairs”.

What I like about the West is the idea, that there is a time when you simply have to become independent from your parents. This is obviously not the case in Asia.

For me the bottom line is, that I want to marry a woman, not a daughter.

12

quote=“Vorkosigan” A ferocious nasty temper is a really common trait in Taiwanese culture and among Taiwanese females. Spending all ones time in a world dominated by males to the detriment of females tends to have that effect. If I had a nickel for every foreigner I met who complained that their wife concealed her temper until after they were married…
(2) Taiwanese females are incredibly possessive and jealous. I have foreign friends whose wives annihilate them if a fem co-worker has a picture taken with them, or if a female calls them at home for any reason.[/quote]

I’m starting to notice this too in some women. What’s the problem here. it’s kinda scary. how do you work around that anger, jealousy, or possessiveness?

Why do you think it’s so destructive in these years? what are they doing to the kids at this age?

13

Don’t overlook any signals early on in the dating ritual. I find it hard to believe that these wives “concealed” all their anger until they were married. There were signs during the dating process that were ignored. If you are “starting to notice this too in some women”, then it is time to slip out the back, Jack. And before you get married.

14

Good way to put it!

The best way is to move away, so you can cut down on visits. And smile a lot when they give you advice, and then do whatever the hell you want. That’s what we do. Support your wife emotionally when her parents struggle for control over her, and teach her to understand that her family is now you and your children. Good luck.

15

Training is quite difficult. Dump her, and find one of the exceptions.

“The problem” is the authoritarian nature of Chinese culture, I suspect, and its male chauvinism, and the way it forces people to compete with each other. Anger and jealousy are natural reactions in people taught from birth that the Jones must not only be kept up with, they must be obliterated from the Earth by our success, and further, that our success vis-a-vis the Jones is one of two valid measure of our personal worth (the other being test success). Also, the answer to all social issues in Chinese culture is “more control” so in so many local marriages I’ve seen the couple spends all its time struggling for control of a desperately unhappy marriage. Naturally anger is one weapon in that fight. Ever avoided doing something because it might make your wife angry? Congrats, you’ve just discovered the purpose of anger.

16

I can undertstand some of the comments here, but all in all there seems to be a deal of stereotyping going on. Sure, there are some commonalities amongst Taiwanese woman but I have found that across national boundaries PEOPLE have similar wants, needs, desires when it comes to relationships.

In MY experience I have dated several western woman who were possessive, irrational, known for fits of anger etc, and also had super intrusive families. On the flip my wife (Taiwanese) is very independent and her family very supportive of our own family unt.

Whilst I am not trying to negate what others have said above, I just think we shouldnt try and pigeon hole too much. People are people, some suck some dont… I think it is really that simple… :smiley:

17

One of the above posts said that only the happy marriages are weighing in, so here

18

BQ, excellent post. Not perjorative, just the straight poop. Your views on cultural differences in marriage were interesting.

I think it takes healthy people at least a year to get over a divorce. Looks like you’re already on your way. Good luck.

19

Sorry chaps but it seems as though my post has killed a thread that still held some interest for me.

I was interested in exploring the difference in attitude to finances within a marriage or long-term relationship. In my limited experience this was a landmine par excellence. Completely unforeseen, and unexpected.

I’d like to hear any other opinions, or experiences in this regard. Anyone willing to share?

20

I’ve been married to my Taiwanese husband almost 3 years. I also had a long distance relationship with an Indonesian Chinese for 6 years. He was totally different in the States, where we met, than in Indonesia with his family. It never would have worked there. So, from that experience and BQ’s great post, I’d have to add the advice to spend some real time with eachother in their home and around their family.

My husband and I met here and have always lived here, only visited my “home.” His family isn’t typical and are trully nutts, even by the standard of other Taiwanese. It took a year or so, but finally he came to understand that we needed to be away from his family if we were going to make it.

It wasn’t easy to make the move and he still has big problems talking to any of the family. They, of course, all blame me. I, of course, don’t give a rip. We have a 6 month old son that none of them have seen. It’s not easy this way, but it’s a lot harder with them telling my husband and I how to do everything by s\t!