CSB gives KMT three months to change emblem

[quote]http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/front/archives/2004/11/22/2003212073

President Chen Shui-bian (陳水扁) yesterday demanded that the Chinese Nationalist Party (KMT) should change its party emblem in three months, otherwise he would propose that the legislature amend the National Emblem Law (國徽法) if the pan-green camp wins a legislative majority in the upcoming elections.[/quote]

Is CSB planning to pay for all these changes? I think CSB has lost his mind. Why not just outlaw the KMT and declare ROC as an one pary country? I’m sure passing a law like that would be simple for a man that is Chairman of the DPP, President of ROC and Head of ROC military.

He has lost it big time

that’s a long-standing and unfair situation that has often been remarked upon. the kmt may have been the country in the past but it’s not now. correcting it hardly makes me think chen is losing it. if the kmt doesn’t see the unfairness in the situation, excuse me while i laugh and retch, then changing the flag is not an unreasonable remedy. perhaps if the kmt did not insist on maintaining such a confrontational position with the dpp you would not see this kind of move. in that light it is entirely logical.

The KMT logo is to the Taiwanese flag what the UK flag is to Australia.
I don’t have a nice gif of the KMT flag to make this square complete:.
The implication is that the KMT is the originator of Taiwan, the “mother ship” in some way.


party != state. It’s that simple.

In Western vexillology, the jack is the position of honor. I would compare the ROC flag with the Soviet flag, which by the way is being brought back for limited use in the Russian navy.

Screaming Jesus,

The red in ROC flag is “soviet-like” revolution statement. The KMT logo is just the white and the blue, which is not revolutionary at all give their symbolism and history.

Given the fact that the ROC flag is derived from the KMT logo. I am somewhat confounded by what purpose does changing the KMT logo have to do with anything.

Is CSB so desperate for a political platform this close to the LY election he wants to distract from the real issues?

Is CSB frustrated with his own 4 no’s 1 without policy which restricts him from changing the ROC constitution and flag, that the KMT logo will do just as well?

What further sadden me is that CSB, a proponent of reform, is willing to threaten the opposition party with his office.

I mean let’s say CSB is not able to do good on his ultimatum to the KMT, he will make his office look kind of weak. And let’s say he does succeed and pass a law to change the KMT logo, he makes the president’s office look like a tool of political retribution instead of an office to serve the people of ROC.

Some people don’t understand that concept.

I’m sure CSB will come through on KMT demands that he change the nation flag within 3 days. This whole issue hinges on a law enacted in 1928, which the adopted the KMT emblem as the National emblem. What CSB is advocating would be technically illegal.

Instead of make a public brew-ha-ha over this. He should just advocate having a civilized debate in the LY about repealing or admending the 1928 law in light out his own 4 no’s and 1 without policy. 1954 was the last time the law about the national emblem was admended, so that there was differences made between the KMT logo and the national emblem.

So am I to assume that CSB does not believe that DPP = ROT?

The vestiges of Chinese colonial must be purged from our country! I commend our President A-Bian for finally getting rid of the Chinese symbols once and for all.

So the KMT is going to change their party symbol because A-bian instructed them to. Yeah, that’s going to happen. :unamused:

This is so nutty I can only think it’s some kind of diversion. What’s he up to?

[quote=“Spack”]
This is so nutty I can only think it’s some kind of diversion. What’s he up to?[/quote]
It’s nutty and brilliant at the same time. Of course it’s wrong for the symbols of one political party to be all over the icons of state in a multi-party democracy. It’s just plain wrong. The Nazis did this, so did the CCP, and so did Stalin.

  1. A-Bian spends ten minutes of his time at an election rally to point out the irony of this and wind the faithful up into righteous indignation. All of a sudden dozens of opposition politicians are wasting their time attempting to defend the indefensible instead of doing their jobs, or campaigning. They’re so busy fighting this idea with dumb ideas of their own that they don’t have the time for anything else.
  2. A-Bian manoevers KMT into refusing to change it’s own symbols by threatening to do with or without their consent. Of course they can only resort to bluster over such a challenge, which then leaves the only other alternative, changing the flag and symbols of state to something more neutral. DPP has long held the goal of changing the flag along with the constitution, and Lien Chan is going to help them achieve that goal.

:bravo: :bravo: :bravo:

[quote=“hsiadogah”][quote=“Spack”]
This is so nutty I can only think it’s some kind of diversion. What’s he up to?[/quote]
It’s nutty and brilliant at the same time. Of course it’s wrong for the symbols of one political party to be all over the icons of state in a multi-party democracy. It’s just plain wrong. The Nazis did this, so did the CCP, and so did Stalin.

  1. A-Bian spends ten minutes of his time at an election rally to point out the irony of this and wind the faithful up into righteous indignation. All of a sudden dozens of opposition politicians are wasting their time attempting to defend the indefensible instead of doing their jobs, or campaigning. They’re so busy fighting this idea with dumb ideas of their own that they don’t have the time for anything else.
  2. A-Bian manoevers KMT into refusing to change it’s own symbols by threatening to do with or without their consent. Of course they can only resort to bluster over such a challenge, which then leaves the only other alternative, changing the flag and symbols of state to something more neutral. DPP has long held the goal of changing the flag along with the constitution, and Lien Chan is going to help them achieve that goal.[/quote]

Absolutely spot on. The nuttiness of it all may be risky, but Chen can always rely on Lien’s bluster and Soong’s extremism to look less nutty. In the (paraphrased) words of Deep Throat, you work slowly from the outside, moving gradually upwards toward the target. If you move too fast and aim too high, then you look silly and your enemy begins to feel more comfortable. In this case, the ultimate target is not the KMT logo, but the ROC flag itself. If the KMT won’t accept the principle of party-state distinction, then have it your way, boys, we’ll change the national flag instead…eventually…because you can’t be trusted to throw off the shackles of your autocratic mindset.

The only problem with this is when the day comes that the ROC flag, etc, is dispensed with, Chen has to explain his use and presidential support for all of that “Republic of China” rhetoric. Perhaps he’s limiting his role to facilitating the demise of the KMT and leaving the rest of the job to a successor unencumbered by his maneuvering.

It’s nice to see Chen’s focusing on the important issues facing the nation.

Umm. All very clever. It does however miss the minor detail that it isn’t the KMT that’s threatening to invade if the national flag is changed.

Hey, it’s election season (yet again) - why on earth would you want to bring up important issues now? Pointless emotive issues are the staple of any decent democracy at times like these :slight_smile:

[quote=“david”]
Umm. All very clever. It does however miss the minor detail that it isn’t the KMT that’s threatening to invade if the national flag is changed.[/quote]Yes, but when China starts saber rattling about it DPP can point the finger at Lien Chan for being so stubborn as not to change his flag…
If Lien Chan folds and changes the flag, he’s A-Bian’s bitch. If he’s stubborn and refuses it shows huge arrogance (KMT is more important than the country) and it’s he who has invited more trouble with China by forcing the change of the national flag. Lose/lose for KMT. All this mileage for 10 minutes of speech time at a rally. :notworthy: :notworthy:

Umm. All very clever. It does however miss the minor detail that it isn’t the KMT that’s threatening to invade if the national flag is changed.[/quote]

True, yet which party was it that blocked defense spending in the legislature and has stymied the great majority of needed non-military reforms that Tetsuo is presumably referring to? You don’t have to be overly impressed with forking out so much money for such dreadful killing machines to understand that the KMT is perfectly happy to see Taiwan remain vulnerable and hamstrung

Really the CCP has so far done a brillant job reforming and advancing the PRC.

Is it not the DPP within ROC that has hindering ROC economic development and military stability with their fundimental position used to garner votes on Taiwan?

I brought up this issue in a sarcastic voice only to illustrate that many of us who have lived under different forms of democracy fundimentally see the same problem. The leadership in ROC are framing issues incorrectly and are selecting the wrong issues into the spot light. The problem is further complicated by the fact the voting masses have not experienced living under a well managed democracy.

So the never ending theater on ROC is accepted as politics and statemenship.

I’d say the CCP has done a brilliant job of advancing themselves. The PRC could go either way, IMHO. There’s a lot that could go terribly, terribly wrong, and little in the way of a non-gov civil society to cushion the blow if it does. (No churches to feed the unemployed, for instance.)

I actually (gasp) agree with you about the DPP and their chosen political emphases. Now CSB as a masterful politician, he does what will get him and his ahead. I blame the blues for letting him set the terms of the debate. And the average Taiwanese, for being the sort of people who watch TV news about naked women, fluffy animals, and fires. (So of COURSE the politicians aren’t going to talk about economics.)

It’s a brilliant move. This issue and the “soft coup” allegations are part of a carefully thought out campaign strategy.

Anyone who has observed CSB over the years knows that he is a careful and crafty politician. These “controversies” generated so close to the election are well-timed bombs set off for the very specific purpose of focusing attention on Pan Blue’s vulnerabilities - i.e. their disgraceful behavior following their previous defeat, and the historical dominaton / oppression of the KMT.

I’m not surprise AC doesn’t get it. His KMT condition prevents him from seeing the truth. :wink: