ac_loser is a kmt propagandist; what more do you expect? He can’t understand what our popularly elected President is doing for our people.
I don’t know AC, but I’m going to assume he is a nice guy so I’m not going to call him any names. He probably comes from a Waishenren (mainland) family so he grew up with a lot of KMT BS. He’s probably misguided rather than evil.
CSB’s strategy makes perfect sense when you consider that there are still many delusional KMT supporters who will never vote any other way no matter what. This hardcore base included the Waishenren, the Benshenren who marries into Waishenren families, plus some Taiwanese who just can’t think straight.
A lot of these KMT supporters come from a background of privilege. That is, they enjoyed all the little perks they got back in the KMT dominant days. The guaranteed cushy government jobs, the 18% insterest, the education subsidies - all paid for by the hard work of the oppressed yet diligent Taiwanese people.
So now Pan Green takes away these unfair perks, which they have taken for granted, and they become very angry. That’s why they hate CSB and LTH so much.
Therefore, the best way to beat them is to shine a light on the treasonous stupidity of the KMT (inciting mobs; public statements saying anything can kill CSB; etc.). This will motivate the people who don’t support KMT to turn out in large numbers, to deal KMT and the spoiled Waishenren another crushing defeat.
Agree to this.
If you look back at the presidential campaign, then President Chen set the tone for the campaign, he was allowed to set the topics of the campaign, and the result was that he won.
He’s repeating that, and the most interesting thing is that the KMT has not learned. They still let him set the tone of the campaign, and spend all their time defending themselves.
Where is Ma Yingjiu or Lian Zhan being out there doing the same? They are not. They have a bunker mentality, and that will cost them dearly.
Exactly, this is why we should have a one party rule by Taiwanese parties as opposed to a corrupt pro-Chinese party such as the KMT-PFP
I agree that he’s setting the tone, and that it might be a successful campaign strategy. However, the tone he is setting is “give us a majority and we’ll legislate the KMT into oblivion”, which makes me very uncomfortable. They’re talking about changing the law to make the KMT logo illegal, aggressively reclaiming all the KMT stolen assets, and I remember they were talking about “cutting the KMT’s throat” as the main goal for this election.
Surely there’s a host of legislation for the betterment of Taiwan which they’ve been dying to push through for the last 4 years, but have been blocked by the KMT/PFP. Now that would be a good message to push (after all, the only KMT response would be “we’ll continue to block their legislation if you elect us”).
Yeah - but that’s just because the KMT leadership is useless. CSB could campaign that he’s planning on a holiday if they win a majority (heh, to Vanuatu perhaps?), and he’d still be setting the tone of the election (I can see Lien Chan’s response: “I haven’t done anything for the last four years, so I don’t need a holiday”)
[quote=“david”]
I agree that he’s setting the tone, and that it might be a successful campaign strategy. However, the tone he is setting is “give us a majority and we’ll legislate the KMT into oblivion”, which makes me very uncomfortable. They’re talking about changing the law to make the KMT logo illegal, aggressively reclaiming all the KMT stolen assets, and I remember they were talking about “cutting the KMT’s throat” as the main goal for this election.[/quote]
The cut throat thing was not an allusion to violence, just that they want their majority, so they can start cleaning up here. (They will be better at that than the KMT, trust me on that count).
Claiming the KMT logo as a state logo makes sense, as you can not have hte stale logo, flag and song being the symbols of a party, and well… if those are changed, then we are looking at a possible war with the PRC.
The stolen assets. Sure, time to claim them back.
Also, the truth and/or justice commision will be established and they will use that to actually find out what happened during martial law. All good, as a matter of fact.
I tend to disagree with the fact that they are
[quote=“david”]
Surely there’s a host of legislation for the betterment of Taiwan which they’ve been dying to push through for the last 4 years, but have been blocked by the KMT/PFP. Now that would be a good message to push (after all, the only KMT response would be “we’ll continue to block their legislation if you elect us”). [/quote]
I tend to disagree with the fact that they are not using the KMT stranglehold on the legislature to garner votes. They are, with the arms bill being the last example.
Also, there have been a few infrastructure improvements, such as the Taoyuan County MRT, additional funds into recretional areas etc, who have had no chance of passing the LY. The issue has been pushed, but has failoed to capture headlines.
The weakness of the KMT leadership plays a large role in the fact that Chen got re-elected and the greens look set to capture the legislature.
the DPP has been up against a very weak opponent, and no, I don’t see them improving over the next years.
I believe if KMT does not stop using the sun emblem, they will continue to be associated with the old party=state image, which is continuing to tear them apart. If they were smart, they would stopped using the sun emblem in 2000 when they were no longer in power. They gave CSB 4 years to figure this out!
If the alliance between KMT and PFP ends up to become the “Chinese Nationalist Party”, it would be interesting to see if the sun emblem is still going to be used. If they had decided to stop using the sun emblem before CSB said anything, people would applaud them for really going through reforms. Doing it now is just going to make them look like “A-bien’s bitch”. 
If they continue to use the sun emblem, it’s to CSB’s advantage. It becomes another example that he can refer to, and show that KMT is the same as before democracy came to Taiwan. It may show his weakness to reform ROC, but if it means weakness in the legislative yuan… then hey… isn’t that another reason to vote for a green legislator?
Great move!
The blues are finished in 1 week.
I don’t know AC, but I’m going to assume he is a nice guy so I’m not going to call him any names. He probably comes from a waishengren (mainland) family so he grew up with a lot of KMT BS. He’s probably misguided rather than evil.
CSB’s strategy makes perfect sense when you consider that there are still many delusional KMT supporters who will never vote any other way no matter what. This hardcore base included the waishengren, the Benshenren who marries into waishengren families, plus some Taiwanese who just can’t think straight.
A lot of these KMT supporters come from a background of privilege. That is, they enjoyed all the little perks they got back in the KMT dominant days. The guaranteed cushy government jobs, the 18% insterest, the education subsidies - all paid for by the hard work of the oppressed yet diligent Taiwanese people.
So now Pan Green takes away these unfair perks, which they have taken for granted, and they become very angry. That’s why they hate CSB and LTH so much.
Therefore, the best way to beat them is to shine a light on the treasonous stupidity of the KMT (inciting mobs; public statements saying anything can kill CSB; etc.). This will motivate the people who don’t support KMT to turn out in large numbers, to deal KMT and the spoiled waishengren another crushing defeat.[/quote]
I believe this basically sums up why the DPP party is the voice of agrieves on Taiwan. In this you see the racist statement that somehow all WSR are privileged and their success is based on a unfair system the KMT created. When in fact for the common WSR that arrived on Taiwan they had to go through the same process as any BSR to advance in the country.
There are plenty of hard luck stories of WSR that arrived on Taiwan and could never get married and died without family in the military housing complex. There are plenty of stories of WSR being bullied in Taiwan society for inability to speak Hoklo.
If you believe this propoganda, are we to assume all DPP supporters are the underprivileged, and undereducated. That if DPP gets a majority in the government, we will no longer be advancing people based on merit or education; and only on Hoklo pro-pan-Green qualities. That money should be distributed to the historically poor for no other reason then that they are poor. That opportunity for higher education be offered not to those with the best merit, but to only Hoklo that recite DPP propoganda. Sounds more and more like the CPP of yore and radical communism if you as me.
If this polarization continues with Taiwan society, it is only a matter of time PRC dominates ROC. Since it is obvious we waste to much time on this issues that cannot really be resolved without adopting a better narrative of the situation on Taiwan that does not victimizing one group or the other.
ac_blue please stop picking on XMW: we all know he speaks the truth and the WSR are no better than the White slaveowners who oppressed (Taiwanese) slaves. The only Taiwanese supporters of the WSR are nothing more than House slaves while Lee TengHui and President Chen are nothing more than Patriots of Taiwan Republic!
I know it’s sacreligious to agree with AC, but for me this is the fundamental point. If the DPP do aggressively go after the KMT then it will be a horribly divisive move. One of the promises Chen made when he was inaugurated was to try to unify a pretty divided country - which I don’t see happening with this rhetoric.
The KMT is not (yet) a discredited ex-dictatorship with no support. Remember that they managed to get 49% of the vote, despite have a clueless uncharismatic leader. That means there is still a lot of public sympathy for them (or perhaps just plain distrust of the DPP). If the DPP starts stripping their assets and changing the law to make them illegal the moment it can, then it will outrage at least half the country.
To a DPP supporter, they would be doing this because it’s the right thing to do. But to a KMT supporter, or an undecided, then it will be seen as an act of revenge, and a blatant attempt to kill the only viable opposition party.
[quote=“Mr He”]Claiming the KMT logo as a state logo makes sense, as you can not have hte stale logo, flag and song being the symbols of a party, and well… if those are changed, then we are looking at a possible war with the PRC.
The stolen assets. Sure, time to claim them back. [/quote]
Do I think the KMT & National emblem should be the same? Of course not.
Should assets stolen by the KMT after the war be returned to the government? Sure.
The question is not (for me) should these things be resolved - but how. Do you trust the DPP to go about this in a mature and balanced way? A month ago, I would have said that I trust CSB to restrain the more lunatic fringe of the DPP (the maturity and moderation he has shown since the election has impressed me). Now that he seems to be leading the pitchfork wielding mob, I’m much less confident.
Of course CSB has got a track record of campaigning in an extreme fashion, and then showing much more moderation when in power, so perhaps this is just campaign rhetoric which can be ignored. But I still find it worrying.
One final point. For the pan-Greens to gain a majority, they need to lure voters who voted Blue 3 years ago. How do these attacks on the KMT make those (sympathetic to the KMT, but thinking of switching) voters more likely to vote DPP?
A few things (pls clarify):
-
Sure the KMT got 49% of the vote but the Greens increased their vote considerably over the 2000 election
-
Flowing from 1, how do the LY elections go - i.e. are the compulsorary? I dont think so… therefore it isnt simply a matter of luring Blue votes across but also getting lazy Green voters of their asses to vote.
It could go either way… either lay Greens will outnumber lazy Blues or the other way round. I thought in the US the lazy Democrats > lazy Repub’s but I was wrong… maybe Taiwan could do the same.
I don’t dispute the downward trend of KMT support. In fact, I’d suggest that it shows it’s better to let the KMT either reform (and so cooperate on asset transfer/logos) or die a natural death, rather than antagonise/victimise them. My point was simply that attacking the KMT is likely to piss off at least 49% of the electorate.
Fair point. However, a DPP supporter who gets excited about forcing a logo change on the KMT is likely to be pretty hardcore (and so very likely to vote anyway); But a lazy KMT supporter could be wound up by this enough to ensure she votes KMT.
The number of lazy KMT supporters are too few to really be of any concern. Most of the flag waving ROC fanatics have already taken their vote to the PFP. I should also point out that support for the blue presidential ticket was a result of cooperation by the KMT and PFP, thus it would be less than true to say that changing the KMT logo will piss off 49% of the electorate.
[quote=“david”]
Of course CSB has got a track record of campaigning in an extreme fashion, and then showing much more moderation when in power, so perhaps this is just campaign rhetoric which can be ignored. But I still find it worrying.
[/quote]Why do you think he gave KMT 3 months to change the logos instead of 3 weeks or 3 days? 
This kind of confrontational rhetoric rallies the troops into going out and voting. LY elections have always had very low turnouts and it’s seen that when the polls are very close, or when the turnouts are higher than expected, DPP wins. Sure these kind of tactics will stir up a few pale-blues into a fit that will carry them to the polling station, but it will get more green voters motivated than blue.
After the dust settles and DPP has control of LY, then A-Bian can be generous and scale the demands down a few (or several) notches. He learned a lot from the 4th nuke battle in his first term…
Chinese pressure on elections always helps the green vote, so TIA for the LY majority guys 
But the problem still remains while ROC is mobilizing the remaining ROC citizens to vote for either party, the PRC is mobilizing the international community to isolate ROC.
So if the pan-Green wins a majority in the LY, it still has to contend with the PRC, 102 nations, and with 1/2 of ROC that do not support their ambitions.
Given the size of the task at hand, don’t you it would be wiser to try to get the support of the majority of remaining 49% of ROC before trying to take on the PRC and the world.
Which still doesn’t take away from the point that CSB has put his office in a bad position, in 3 months if KMT does not change the emblem, then ROC will look weak to the PRC and the world. Not the mention the 49% of ROC citizens that don’t support this current administration, and the validity of CSB current term.
AC, 49% of the electorate didn’t support him on March 20. That number has certainly decreased over the past six months. If a presidential election were held today the blues would lose by at least ten points - maybe more.
As far as the longterm memory of voters, in three months everyone will have forgotten the issue. After all, no one talks about Lien’s referendum on merging Taipei City/County or the “wife beater” suit against Next Magazine! 
[quote=“david”]Do I think the KMT & National emblem should be the same? Of course not.
Should assets stolen by the KMT after the war be returned to the government? Sure.
The question is not (for me) should these things be resolved - but how. Do you trust the DPP to go about this in a mature and balanced way?[/quote]
I would still say yes. There’s simply no question that the KMT possessed property, and made lots of money selling property, that was not the party’s to sell or use. And there’s also no question that in A-bian’s first term, he was not able to do much about it, although he would have liked to. The KMT is not above the law, and suddenly holding them accountable, while shocking to some, is necessary for the healthy development of democracy. No one is asking that the KMT be dismantled, just that they have to give back anything they stole. It’s only fair.
TaiOanKok,
So once DPP is done with the KMT, will it start turning to Japan and requesting the reparation of stuff stolen from Taiwan.
Or will it start targeting it is own administration and return stuff to the aboriginals as well.
It has become fairly obvious the pan-Green have no cohesive policy besides scapegoating the KMT, their political opposition.
Perhaps reparations are in order. But the current trend is destructive and foolhardy to say the least.
Taioankok has a good idea, we should return to Japan everything that was stolen by the KMT and pay for the aboriginal emigration to South Africa and Latin America!