[quote]Chen reiterated his Sunday statement that “after March 20, retired generals intensely lobbied serving high-ranking generals and demanded them to claim illness, enter hospitals and submit resignations with the intention of upsetting military morale and expanding the post-election social turmoil.”
The president insisted he had “personally and very clearly investigated and checked related persons, times and places” and the “related persons had all acknowledged” their involvement. . . .
Chen said after the March 20 poll, “the pan-blue camp and some retired generals still under the influence of the myth that the national army is the (KMT) party army, attempted to use past ties between commanding and subordinate officers to lobby serving generals to enter hospitals and resign to shake the military morale.”
Chen said the “outstanding leadership” and efforts of defense ministers and armed forces chiefs of staff, including Tang and Lee, since the transfer of power to the DPP in May 2000 had transformed the armed forces into a body “loyal to the country, the Constitution and the people. . . .”
Chen also defended his description of the unsuccessful actions by the “retired generals” as a “soft coup” and asked citizens to recall the March 20-27 events in and “then judge.”
Chen recounted the series of events after the CEC announced the election results - from the declaration by Lien and Soong that the poll was “unfair,” late-night assaults led by pan-blue lawmakers on court offices, mass occupation and rioting in front of the Office of the President,and calls by Lien and Soong for foreign governments to intervene.[/quote]
I think CSB has lost his mind if he thinks because the generals decide to have a group “sick day” as protest to the election results is a coups d’etat.
The point is CSB cannot stand the fact of being slighted by the military, because he was a draft dodger.
CSB has not earned any credibility with the ROC military it just that simple. Just because they don’t respect the man, doesn’t mean they want to throw the country into chaos and start a coups d’etat.
I think it was a very poor word choice as well, but you spun this a bit. He does not think that a few generals having a group “sick day” is a coup. I don’t mean to repeat myself but,
And that this alone was not what justified use of the word coup, but that the descriptoin was apt when considered with other events including
It might indeed be dramatic and political language, but certainly it does not qualify as “an insane man’s rambling.”
Edit: Note that Chen is not attacking the military so much as the Blue leaders in all of these comments.
I believe CSB overspun the events. There is no conspiracy to overthrow the ROC or the central government. In fact, everyone is still working within the system to resolve the events of 320.
The general that retired, announced months in advance his intentions, due to health reasons.
The people protested due to the close results of the election. They requested a recount, not the overthrow of the government.
The gunshot is still under investigation.
If the pan-Green response is that the gun shot was too complicated to stage. Then CSB assertation that this was part of coup is even more far fetch.
The gunshot, the roit, were all carefully planned and timed, so that phone calls to the generals could be made for a soft coup.
The rest of CSB comments are open to interpretations.
[quote=“ac_dropout”]The people protested due to the close results of the election. They requested a recount, not the overthrow of the government.
[/quote]
Just wandering ac, but now that you had the recount and that the result remains the same, do you approve of the continued refusal of the pan-blues to accept the result?
[quote=“butcher boy”][quote=“ac_dropout”]The people protested due to the close results of the election. They requested a recount, not the overthrow of the government.
[/quote]
Just wandering ac, but now that you had the recount and that the result remains the same, do you approve of the continued refusal of the pan-blues to accept the result?[/quote]
what about the historical avoidance of the blue team and their offspirng of military service? aint a CSB only realm ac… but facts have never been your strong point
The blues will not concede and will keep on muttering about the “stolen” election till they lose the next one - hopefully by a wide enough margin…
I always wondered as to why former the defence minister and the chief of the general staff checked themelves in for routine surgery the day after the presidential election.
My theory was that they wanted to avoid any pressure on them from the blues to remove the president by means of a coup d’etat. Seems that I was wrong.
[quote=“butcher boy”][quote=“ac_dropout”]The people protested due to the close results of the election. They requested a recount, not the overthrow of the government.
[/quote]
Just wandering ac, but now that you had the recount and that the result remains the same, do you approve of the continued refusal of the pan-blues to accept the result?[/quote]
Given the politics of Taiwan, I don’t believe the truth of 319 incidents will be revealed until the DPP are out of power on the island.
As they say on Taiwan “Everything is easier when you’re in office.” Appointments to heads of TV and Radio stations; and appointment judges handling the legal cases makes it quite difficult to get an neutral perspective of what has happened.
I support the KMT because I believe they are the only party with the experience and people to resolve the strait issue peacefully.
Yes but KMT people can dodge the draft and not lose the respect of ROC top brass, because we don’t forget that it was these people that gave up their lives to defend the ROC from the communist.
Nor do KMT people use the racial politics of authentic Taiwanese to alienate a segment of people in the military.
[quote=“ac_dropout”]
As they say on Taiwan “Everything is easier when you’re in office.” Appointments to heads of TV and Radio stations; and appointment judges handling the legal cases makes it quite difficult to get an neutral perspective of what has happened.[/quote]
Hmmm, most TV stations here are still controlled by the KMT. Case in point, the presidential election, where the vote tallies on most TV stations showed Lian the winner, despite the fact that the CEC’s own tallies showed Chen the winner…
Also, most judges here in Taiwan got their jobs before 2000, and was therefore appointed by the KMT, also nowadays, the way judges are selected and promoted is a great deal less political than it was in the past.
Haha, that’s a great one. Want to share the KMT cross strait record with us?
I have a crack at it…
KMT lost China.
1958-late 1980’s China shells Jinmen and Mazu - both islands are under control of the KMT led ROC. Hardly a sign of good relations, I say.
ROC citizens can travel to China.
Negotiations start in Hong Kong. The 1992 consensus, which is an agreement to disagree, is brought into existence.
Negotiations broken off, China lobs missiles into the waters around Taiwan, after President Lee’s visit to his old university, Cornell.
Presidential election, China lobs more missiles into the water around Taiwan.
President Lee gives up on the softer line, "One China 2 governments, and states his “special country to country” idea. China blows a fuse, but does not throw missiles at the Taiwan waters.
Chen Shuibian becomes president.
For the first time, direct transport links are opened between Taiwan and China, the socalled mini 3 links between Jinmen/Mazu and Fujian, PRC.
Taiwanese air carriers operate chartered flights to and from China during Chinese new year.
President Chen re-elected, accepts the spirit of 1992, and Hu Jintao tones the Chinese retoric longer down than it has been for several years, also US pressure on China to negotiate.
As far as I can see, Taiwan got missiles and grenaded thrown at her when
the KMT was in power, now, we have indirect chartered flights over CNY, and mini links to and from Jinmen/Mazu…
Lol just made an unsupported assertion and Feiren just played yes man to his assertion.
No where is a there any clarification to how the KMT manipulated the ethnic issue on Taiwan. For the most part the KMT taught everyone was Chinese.
The only thing within KMT is culture that was discriminatory is how well one spoke Mandarin as it remained on Taiwan. Even the Cantonese officials within the KMT got ribbing on that issue. However, many Minnan that grew up in Taipei also make fun of their Southern Minnan brethen that have not mastered proper Mandarin yet. However, this is rarely brought up in political campaigns.
Where as DPP concept of “I’m Taiwanese, their Chinese” has often been brought up. Even against Lien Chan, even though, the guy is Taiwanese by old WSR vs BSR standards.
In point of fact, therefore, the amended BTA gave the DPP government de facto and direct control over four of the five VHF networks in Taiwan. These are the TTV (Taiwan Television Enterprise Ltd., oldest network with the Taiwan provincial government as majority stockholder), CTS (Chinese Television System, with the Ministries of National Defense (MND) and Education (MOE) as major stockholders), PTS (Public Television Service, whose board is appointed by the government and relies heavily on government subsidies), and Formosa TV (privately owned by supporters of the Taiwan independence movement, the DPP’s ultimate goal).
The fifth network, CTV (China Television Co. Ltd.) is owned by the KMT’s Hua Hsia Investment Holding Company (Hua Hsia). [/quote]
Also all of these stations are under GIO control, which leadership is appointed by the DPP administration now.
Please provide the name of the Judges handling these cases, their biography and ruling history. I’m pretty sure not all Judges on ROC are handling these cases.
um the big three tv stations from pre-cable days (CTS, TTS, CTV?) are all still heavily invested in and controlled by the KMT (to the best of my knowledge) that’s why the DPP set up minshi…
KMT are trying to sell CTS, and have included the rights to the broadcast frequency as part of the deal. Of course the frequency legally belongs to the government, not the KMT, so this is another demonstration how of they keep confusing the country’s assets with their own. Old habit die hard I guess.
[quote=“ac_dropout”]
No where is a there any clarification to how the KMT manipulated the ethnic issue on Taiwan. For the most part the KMT taught everyone was Chinese.[/quote]
OK, I will give you one. The beating of children at school for speaking Taiwanese or Hakka has been brought up before, and even you mentioned it. Discriminating against a language to the verge of giving it a reputation as only spoken by country bumpkins is somewhat discriminatory as such.
OK, nearly all positions in the covil service, army, and educational establishment was filled with WSR after 1949. Those people were also granted tax freedom, preferential access to the best schoold (Xinsheng Guoxiao is still reserved to 軍公教), preferential treatment, when it came to buy government sponsored housing etc.
While this policy was not ethnic per se, then the recruitment into the army and the civil service was very much based on ethnicity.
Also, another aspect of the unequal treatment was that no leading KMT member before Lee Denghui was a BSR. And in Lian Zhan’s case, then his father migrated from Taiwan to China, and for all practical Lian Zhan is actually not BSR in the sense normally understood.
[quote=“Mr He”]
While this policy was not ethnic per se, then the recruitment into the army and the civil service was very much based on ethnicity.[/quote]There was in fact a quota system in place for many years to restrict the number of Taiwanese that could join the civil service since the KMT had seriously underestimated the number who could pass the exams. IIRC the ratio was fixed at 70 or 80% Chinese, remainder Taiwanese, aboriginal, Hakka…
