Cuba, Castro and Che: A Disaster

gutter poor? The latest Economist has Argentina at $13,000 plus per capita income ppp and the CIA World Fact Book at…

[quote]GDP - per capita (PPP):
$13,700 (2005 est.) [/quote]

Meanwhile… just some facts…

[quote][Cuba] is now slowly recovering from a severe economic recession in 1990, following the withdrawal of former
Soviet subsidies, worth $4 billion to $6 billion annually
.[/quote]

[quote]Exports - partners:
Netherlands 22.7%, Canada 20.6%, China 7.7%, Russia 7.5%, Spain 6.4%, Venezuela 4.4% (2004)
Imports:
$6.916 billion f.o.b. (2005 est.)
Imports - commodities:
petroleum, food, machinery and equipment, chemicals
Imports - partners:
Spain 14.7%, Venezuela 13.5%, US 11%, China 8.9%, Canada 6.4%, Italy 6.2%, Mexico 4.9% (2004) [/quote]

Looking this over, it certainly seems that inability to trade is hardly an explanation for Cuba’s poor economic performance and look even 11 percent of its imports come from the US!!! some embargo…

So please explain how I am an ideological snake? I blame Argentina’s lack of economic development equally on clap-trap socialist-populist theories that have been the bane of Latin America’s existence.

Just because Batista was removed does not mean that I have to like the regime that followed. It is almost exactly the same template as occurred in Soviet Russia and Iran. Okay, so some dictator who was not perfect was removed and rightly so but look at what came after. Surely, I can be even harsher in my condemnation of what followed given the far more egregious behavior that occured? Surely, it is a matter of looking at an objective scale and measuring?

AND let’s look once again at the startling figures reported by the United Nations in 1957…

[quote]Here’s a UNESCO (United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization) report on Cuba circa 1957 that dispels the fantasies of pre-Castro Cuba still cherished by America’s most prestigious academics and its most learned film critics: “One feature of the Cuban social structure is a large middle class,” it starts. "Cuban workers are more unionized (proportional to the population) than U.S. workers.

Cuban labor receives 66.6 per cent of gross national income. In the U.S. the figure is 70 per cent, in Switzerland 64 per cent. 44 per cent of Cubans are covered by Social legislation, a higher percentage then in the U.S."

[quote]In 1958 Cuba had a higher per-capita income than Austria and Japan. [/quote]Cuban industrial workers had the 8th highest wages in the world. In the 1950’s Cuban stevedores earned more per hour than their counterparts in New Orleans and San Francisco. Cuba had established an 8 hour work-day in 1933 – five years before FDR’s New Dealers got around to it. Add to this: one months paid vacation. The much-lauded (by liberals) Social-Democracies of Western Europe didn’t manage this until 30 years later.

Cuba, a country 71% white in 1957, was completely desegregated 30 years before Rosa Parks was dragged off that Birmingham bus and handcuffed. In 1958 Cuba had more female college graduates per capita than the U.S. [/quote]

Fred wins. While rightist “revisionism” can oft-times be venomously partisan, the larger point is that the left has been spectacularly obfuscational when it comes to Cuba. The degree of initial support for Castro among the poorer folks is debatable, and forcing thousands to assemble in public squares to listen to their dear leader in shows of “solidarity” has always been de rigeur for fascists and communists, thus casting a wary eye on some of the left’s orthodox claims is not beyond reason.

And who knew Cuban stevedores had it so good in the 1950s?

Wins what? The ideological snake award for turning around the original argument and turning it into a rant against Castro. Well, yes, I agree.

Sorry Pondexter, the original query was in regards getting rid of Batista.

HG

What is this ideological snake thing? I am making the point that I think Castro and Che and Communism were bad for Cuba and I backed it up with some pretty solid facts. I do not get what you are talking about? Do you think that I sneaked in some kind of hidden motivation to rag on Castro and Che? No, I assure you that it is all completely blatant and intentional…

Whose original query? Yours. When and how? This is a debate as the title has clearly stated about Che and Castro and their pernicious influences on Cuba. I do not see how you are entitled exactly to demand to have this adhere to your none too clearly stated positions. Now, be nice and apologize to porcelainprincess for not stating your position clearly and for unfairly demanding that he toe your line…

Now, before this becomes a tedious pissing match (I have plenty of time today so be warned), let’s re-examine those figures. Isn’t it incredible how well off Cuba was prior to Castro and can we not bemoan the fact that the country has lost so much. Think of what it could be today.

Cuba would probably be a prosperous democratic country by now if Castro hadn’t turned it into a Stalinist outpost.

There’s always a silver lining to every cloud though. Where would we have situated our Gulag Lite for example if it wasn’t for the hospitable soil of Castro’s Cuba?

Sorry mate, as you can probably guess from my hasty scrawls, I got absolutely none!

Ah yes, thread titles.

HG

I’ve got loads of time but know nothing about the subject matter. Darn. :frowning:

Untrue Hexuan. Read through the information contained in the UNESCO report and then ponder the abysmal state of affairs that communism has wrought in poor, literally, poor, poor Cuba. Things could have been so much better. Then, ponder the total inaction, nay excuse-making of the mindless leftie brigades that continue to provide succor and assistance to Castro. Since 1959, that is over 45 years!!!, Cubans have suffered from lost opportunities both economic and cultural not to mention political. Yet, what does this travesty of a nation receive? But accolades from leftie idiots who most deservedly “deserve” to be consigned to such a hellish fate. But hey, at least they will (supposedly) get all that wonderful medical care but whoops that is now primarily for patients from rich, capitalist countries with the $$$ to buy such services, right?

Untrue, fred smith. Read through the information contained in some of the news articles regarding the recent meeting of minds between several of Latin America’s power-hungry populist dictators (or would-be dictators – one must in fairness give Morales time to consolidate his power). You don’t need to be from a rich, capitalist country. It seems safe to assume that Cuban-provided medical care will be available to certain politically well-connected underlings of Bolivia’s new strongman as well. They may only have just begun on the project of appropriating their nation’s natural resources for their own Swiss bank accounts, er… sorry … “for the good of their people”, but I suspect that their credit remains solid nevertheless. :sunglasses:

Haha. I have no doubt that this is “true.” Aren’t you pleased to have me spitting fire again in the IP forum? I hope I am not disturbing any power that be in your bailiwick. Looks like I may be very active for at least another month. What a joyous day! haha