Cultural Difference or Rudeness?

Taiwan Living in Taiwan
1

Two night ago, my girlfriend was at my apartment (in Taoyuan) watching a movie with me. Her sister (who lives in Zhunan) rang her up and said she was at their parents’ house (Neili) and told my girlfriend to come over because they were all going to see a movie. This was all completely unannounced (her sister had actually told everyone she was coming over the following day for lunch).

At first, my girlfriend was going to go, but I told her that was incredibly rude to me, so she told her sister she couldn’t go. Now her sister is pissed off with me. I said you can’t just turn up unannounced and expect someone to drop what they’re doing, especially if they’re doing it with someone else. You call ahead with a reasonable amount of notice and see if someone is free first, otherwise you take your chances. My girlfriend kind of agreed, but she said it’s a cultural thing. I’m having a hard time accepting that the person who gets left in the lerch in such a situation would think that’s acceptable in pretty well any culture because it implies that they’re not that important. On the other hand, as happened a couple of times, her sister said she would arrive at a particular time, was late by several hours (and didn’t call, let alone explain why), and then got upset again that we stayed for about fifteen minutes after she arrived because we had other plans for the evening. There seems to be a complete inability or unwillingness to think of other people and the fact that they most likely have a whole lot of other things going on in their lives that they can’t or won’t just drop or put on hold simply because someone can’t get their shit together.

It brings into focus a deeper issue regarding time in general. I know we Westerners (to varying degrees) are more precise about time over here than Taiwanese (in fact, I’d say Taiwanese are exceptionally casual/rude about time), but what I don’t get is that if people here can manage to catch a plane on time or turn up to certain other things on time, why can’t they extend that across the board? I find it all especially strange, given how rushed everything is in this country, that people aren’t more punctual and demanding of punctuality.

Has anyone had any similar experiences? Does anyone have any thoughts on this matter?

2

Without knowing the circumstances of your relationship, I’d say it was just a power play on the part of her sister. She wanted to sort out how much you mean to her sister. Considering that your GF was ready to go right then and there, well I think you get the idea.*

*Take the following with a grain of salt considering it’s coming from some random person on the internet. Unless it’s Sandman, then it’s the God’s honest truth.

3

A little bit of culture and a lot of cluelessness resulting in ignorence. Cultural in the sense that lots of young women are absolutely spoiled by the families and think of nothing but themselves and think it is acceptable to pout and stomp their feet when things don’t go their way. Considering the importance of women in traditional culture you can reasonably be asured this is not a long standing cultural habit.

Stand your ground. You’re in a cross-cultural relationship and your sensibilities have to be respected too.

Edit: Okami is making a good guess, too.

4

Time is relative. Especially so in this environment. As a rule of thumb, it’s always wise to have set a pre-emptive earlier deadline. If someone is suppossed to come at three, tell them you need them at two, or two-thirty. And if they are slack tardy, call them at once on their insufferable inseperable cell phone.

5

I am absolutely amazed at the number of times I’ve had to deal with someone dumb/rude/selfish/self-centred/inconsiderate/greedy/pain-in-the-arse/fucking-lazy/tofu-for-brains/plain-fucking-stupid

only to be told … “Oh, it’s cultural. It’s a cultural difference. You don’t understand Chinese culture.” :unamused:

And my reply…

Why is it that you insult your own culture like that? :loco:

6

It doesn’t matter whether it’s cultural or not: if you don’t want to be treated like that, then be clear about it.

7

Asking for examples, I have one.

I was supposed to meet a woman in front of a department store at a pre-arranged time for her to show me her apartment that was for rent. I was there, a couple of minutes early, and waited for precisely 10 minutes (my rule of thumb waiting for people - until I got married, that is).

20 minutes later, I’m sitting in a cafe having a coffee and the woman calls me to ask where I am. After explaining that I waited for 10 minutes and then left, she asked why I didn’t call her. I turned the question on her, and asked her why she didn’t call ME if she was going to be late. She had no answer. Then she says, “Well I guess you don’t want the apartment very badly” to which I replied, “And I guess you don’t want to rent it out very badly”.

In a city like Kaohsiung, with LOADS of apartments for rent, her assumption that she had the upperhand in that scenario, and thus was justified for being late, was quite revealing.

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8

Your girlfriend’s sister arrives from out of town and you think your sister should stay watching a movie with you rather than going to see her sister?

Maybe I’m missing something, but that sounds a little control-freaky to me. What would you have done if it were your sister arriving unannounced?

Loosen those reins, I say. Lighten up and learn to go with the flow. Allow your girlfriend to make family a priority or lose her down the line. Just my thoughts.

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9

[quote=“Eros”]Asking for examples, I have one.

I was supposed to meet a woman in front of a department store at a pre-arranged time for her to show me her apartment that was for rent. I was there, a couple of minutes early, and waited for precisely 10 minutes (my rule of thumb waiting for people - until I got married, that is).

20 minutes later, I’m sitting in a cafe having a coffee and the woman calls me to ask where I am. After explaining that I waited for 10 minutes and then left, she asked why I didn’t call her. I turned the question on her, and asked her why she didn’t call ME if she was going to be late. She had no answer. Then she says, “Well I guess you don’t want the apartment very badly” to which I replied, “And I guess you don’t want to rent it out very badly”.

In a city like Kaohsiung, with LOADS of apartments for rent, her assumption that she had the upperhand in that scenario, and thus was justified for being late, was quite revealing.[/quote]

Haha…the number of times I’ve seen people shoot themselves in the foot here business-wise is comical. They have absolutely no clue how to make it. I can name 2 places of business within a block of my apartment who lost my business forever because they tried to play cute and rip off the foreigner for a haircut or some juice.

Taiwan would be very well served to bring in some sort of mandatory school curriculum (created outside of Taiwan) that teaches common business sense and ethics, and spells out the direct correlation between thinking more than 10 seconds into the future and making money.

10

I am Taiwanese.

For many people, maybe they’d think it has something to do with the culture. I’d agree with that sometimes, but not always.

Sometimes I think how the parents raise their children is the key.
And there’s no guarantee that all the families in Taiwan and or Asia would teach their children one way, and those in the West another way.

If the children are taught that no matter what they’re doing, if the family calls, then they have to drop everything and go back to join the family, then the children learn to put the family first. But if they’re taught that if they’re already engaged in some activities with their friends or they already have other plans, then it’s fine for them to not come home when the family calls. They can join the family’s activities if they’re informed beforehand.

I was brought up the latter way. Or at least that’s what I learned while growing up.

Unless it’s something urgent, I wouldn’t just drop what I am doing and go back when my parents call. I’d tell them that it’s not convenient for me to just leave like that, and they should’ve called me earlier.

Sometimes they’re being over-protective ( worrying that their children might do something “wrong”, or just thinking too much), sometimes they miss their kids and don’t know how to express it the right way, sometimes they just want to control them so they can feel better, and sometimes they think it is the “right” way to treat their kids.

Other things can be explained these ways, too.

So I think your girlfriend has to learn that now she’s a grownup and she should understand what and who comes first when in certain situations, and learn to say “no” when she’s asked by the family to react right away.

It’ll be hard to change the family’s attitude towards it, but you and your girlfriend have to stand up and fight for it if you want to be treated better.

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11

Bring in the band… :serenade: :boo-hoo: :boo-hoo: :boo-hoo: :serenade: :serenade: :serenade: :serenade:

Bring in the dancers…

:banana: :dance: :banana:

And the missing 5000 years culture…

:bow:

And here we go…

You think too much [giggle]

:doh:

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12

What if the girlfriend wants to go and see her sister?

13

How far ‘from out of town’ did she come, and how rare a treat is that? I don’t know the distances between Taoyuan, Zhunan and Neili, or how frequent such visits are, so I can’t judge how important it would be to take advantage of a sudden opportunity to see her. Presumably the OP should factor this in. :idunno: But even so, honestly how bloody hard is it to let someone know in advance so you can plan things? :loco: To not bother to let someone know, then just show up and EXPECT them to drop everything is a bit selfish and rude IMO.

If it were a rare opportunity, I’d recommend the OP try to be more understanding. If not, I’d say he should let his GF know that he doesn’t like to be dropped like a hot potato without notice, and the sister shouldn’t be so selfish and inconsiderate.

14

Communicate clearly with girlfriend your thoughts. Let her determine if she is in-line with your ideas or not. If so, give her some time to work out habits with family members.

I patiently waited for about 2 years for my Taiwanese wife to change the habits built up over years. So now no more (or very few) early morning calls from sister. No more immediately dropping all plans to wait for sister or someone else to suddenly show up at our house. (usually to deliver something). No more automatically saying “yes” to all family requests. This communication of changes to family members was tougher on her than me of course.

Of course, I helped make a few changes which seemed way too difficult for them to manage. For example, when 8 year niece calls house looking for my wife but uses half screaming and half laughing voice to ask for her…I simply hang up the phone. Only took two times for the young monster to realize she needed to be polite to get my wife on the phone. From screaming to “Hello, may I speak to xxx?” Amazing. Parents just said too tough to disclipine her for such matters.

15

Well, you could make arrangements for your girlfriend and her sister to have a nice dinner, something the sister surely likes to do.

But suddenly, you have all kind of excuses and turn up 3 or 4 hours late (You turn the tables on them).

  1. Don’t forget to turn off your cell phone.

  2. Make sure they can’t reach you (or your girlfriend) by phone.

  3. You have an important matter to attend to (f.i.: having fun with a foreign friend, …)

  4. While meeting her sister, you make it clear that the other matter had to be attended to.

  5. Make sure your girlfriend goes to the same activity.

  6. Make sure you (and your girlfriend) forget your wallet, so the sister can pay the bill.

The thing about the cell phone previously mentioned, is quite right. If they are 5 miinutes late, just keep on calling, sending SMS, leaving message: where are you? We are here (agreed time) until +20 minutes. “If you don’t show up or you don’t leave us a message, we will have to attend to other matters.”

16

Were you invited?

17

[quote=“Dragonbones”]
How far ‘from out of town’ did she come, and how rare a treat is that? . . .
If it were a rare opportunity, I’d recommend the OP try to be more understanding. If not, I’d say he should let his GF know that he doesn’t like to be dropped like a hot potato without notice, and the sister shouldn’t be so selfish and inconsiderate.[/quote]

As usual, Dragonbones gets right to the heart of the matter.

If her sister is from farther than Oluanbi, or if she is dying of an incurable disease, I think you should back off.

If the sister is a paraplegic, and she requires your SO to wheel her around, try to be more considerate.

18

Another rude telephone manner is this. The phone rings, you pick it up, and the person just starts talking to you without announcing who they are. I can usually figure out who the caller is by the third sentence, but I still ask “So who is this?” just to get them to learn to announce who they are.

19

how important is it to watch a movie with your girlfriend? i like the “you’re being rude to me” bit. you sound like the girl. get a grip.

20

Should have let her go. You’d have had a get out of jail free card in pocket for the next time your buddies ask you down to the pub. :slight_smile: