Was doing some research for a Dutch cycling magazine (Soigneur soigneur.nl/) on the differences in cycling in Taiwan and the Netherlands.
Some interesting facts:
Cycling trails:
Netherlands - More than 6000km (Netherlands area 41,526km)
Taiwan - Just over 1000km (Taiwan area 36,190km)
When Taiwan was planning it’s cycling network they based them on Dutch rules. I managed to get a copy from the Ministry of Transportation and the are almost a carbon copy.
Statistics from 2014 supplied by the Taiwan and Dutch police on the cycling paths in the respected countries.
Netherlands - 24 injuries from accidents in 2014 involving cyclists (actual number)
Taiwan - 281 reported injuries from accidents in 2014 involving cyclists (Taiwan’s national police said the number is higher as many go un-reported)
Injuries involving death
Netherlands - 0
Taiwan - 6
Tickets handed out to cyclists
Netherlands (2014) - 15,332 for the following traffic violations
No helmet (depends on region as the wearing of a helmet is based on local rules)
No light
Light is not the correct angle
Cycling on a walking path
Not stoping at stop signs
Inadequate breaks
Not keeping left
Speeding around corners where the speed limit is between 5 and 10km
Riding a bike with two people that is meant for 1 person
Blocking the path
Taiwan (2014) - 127 for the following traffic violations
Running through a red light
[quote=“wereldomroep”]Some interesting facts:
…
Taiwan (2014) - 127 [tickets] for the following traffic violations
Running through a red light[/quote]
That is interesting. I had no idea it was possible for a cyclist to get a ticket here!
“Now there seems to be a problem in Taiwan.” - Not sure I really understand this comment? Can you elaborate what your point is?
Also I dont see the comparative aspect of these numbers? For example the cycling trails: 6000 (NL) vs 1000 (TW). You should at least consider other aspects like how many kms are paved when you consider this, and where those road are. According to cia.gov/library/publication … /2085.html NL have approx. 138000 km of paved road whilst TW have approx. 42000 km of paved road.
Also, there are no mountains in NL, whilst half of TW is mountains and steep descents which can be fatal. Also, who makes bike paths in mountains?
I am from another cycling happy country, Denmark, who invested a lot of resources in improving and developing their cycling network, and I would never compare DK to TW. Its like comparing apples and lemons. The traffic here is so much different, both in regards to rules, but also the mentality of the motorised vehicles and the cyclists.
Does this definition of cycling paths include the “orange” lanes on the roads in The Netherlands? In that case I would think 6000km is a lot lower than I would have expected. In general, the Dutch bike paths are more widely accepted and car drivers tend to take them into account a lot better, so the on-road bikepaths that we have here in Taiwan cannot be compared to the on-road ones in The Netherlands that are treated almost as a separate bike path in most cases.
One more thing you have to take into account is the fact that Taiwan has mountains… So there’s a higher chance of cyclists or cars flying blindly around dangerous corners than in The Netherlands, thus adding a bias to the injury count. Still I can imagine that there would still be a difference in number of incidents between countries, even if the number of “mountain incidents” is corrected for. I would however be interested to hear what the injury count is in the Alps or the Pyrenees, just for comparison.
Just couple of brain-farts based on your statistics!
[quote=“wereldomroep”]
Now there seems to be a problem in Taiwan.[/quote]
Thanks Sherlock. Post stats that’s a comparison of almost polar opposite countries in terms of cycling and finish with a passive aggressive remark. Did you want to elaborate on your findings or wanted to make sure everyone knew you’re still not a fan of the Taiwan bike path system?
[quote=“lostinasia”][quote=“wereldomroep”]Some interesting facts:
…
Taiwan (2014) - 127 [tickets] for the following traffic violations
Running through a red light[/quote]
That is interesting. I had no idea it was possible for a cyclist to get a ticket here![/quote]
I’ve never seen it in person and I’ve never received one myself, but in the local cycling Facebook groups, many people have posted pictures of their issued tickets. They reported that it’s around a 600-800NT fine. I have to assume that they are caught at major intersections during busy times of the day.
[quote=“dinvenanders”]“Now there seems to be a problem in Taiwan.” - Not sure I really understand this comment? Can you elaborate what your point is?
Also I don’t see the comparative aspect of these numbers? For example the cycling trails: 6000 (NL) vs 1000 (TW). You should at least consider other aspects like how many kms are paved when you consider this, and where those road are. According to cia.gov/library/publication … /2085.html NL have approx. 138000 km of paved road whilst TW have approx. 42000 km of paved road.
Also, there are no mountains in NL, whilst half of TW is mountains and steep descents which can be fatal. Also, who makes bike paths in mountains?
I am from another cycling happy country, Denmark, who invested a lot of resources in improving and developing their cycling network, and I would never compare DK to TW. Its like comparing apples and lemons. The traffic here is so much different, both in regards to rules, but also the mentality of the motorised vehicles and the cyclists.[/quote]
But the laws are based on Dutch cycling path rules. As they said they are nearly a carbon copy. If you have rule then they should be enforced.
Does this definition of cycling paths include the “orange” lanes on the roads in The Netherlands? In that case I would think 6000km is a lot lower than I would have expected. In general, the Dutch bike paths are more widely accepted and car drivers tend to take them into account a lot better, so the on-road bikepaths that we have here in Taiwan cannot be compared to the on-road ones in The Netherlands that are treated almost as a separate bike path in most cases.
One more thing you have to take into account is the fact that Taiwan has mountains… So there’s a higher chance of cyclists or cars flying blindly around dangerous corners than in The Netherlands, thus adding a bias to the injury count. Still I can imagine that there would still be a difference in number of incidents between countries, even if the number of “mountain incidents” is corrected for. I would however be interested to hear what the injury count is in the Alps or the Pyrenees, just for comparison.
Just couple of brain-farts based on your statistics![/quote]
That is the point. Even under the Taipei City rules they should be separated with a distance of 24cm with a barrier of 5cm high. Again what is the point of having these rules if no one follows them. They talk about expanding the network. And they are doing it. But if Taiwan “claims” to be a civilized place. Well…
[quote=“wereldomroep”]
But the laws are based on Dutch cycling path rules. As they said they are nearly a carbon copy. If you have rule then they should be enforced.[/quote]
wereldomroep, I understand what you’re getting at but you’re comparing the most cycling friendly country in the world to probably one of the worst. Cycling paths in the UK have just as many idiots blocking them. Rules being enforced? just look at everything in taiwan, traffic rules, health and safety, food safety, everything is just ignored on a massive scale. I believe it will get better but it’s going to take a long time.
As for the other statistics, they’re just not a good comparison without context. You know twice as many people died cycling in London alone than in Taiwan last year, but I felt a damn site safer cycling there. You need deaths/km traveled or something if you want any kinds of meaningful comparisons.
I personally think the bicycle paths are good enough here for now. They’re at the bottom of a long list of things that I think need sorting out first.
[quote=“ShutUpLegs”][quote=“wereldomroep”]
But the laws are based on Dutch cycling path rules. As they said they are nearly a carbon copy. If you have rule then they should be enforced.[/quote]
wereldomroep, I understand what you’re getting at but you’re comparing the most cycling friendly country in the world to probably one of the worst. Cycling paths in the UK have just as many idiots blocking them. Rules being enforced? just look at everything in taiwan, traffic rules, health and safety, food safety, everything is just ignored on a massive scale. I believe it will get better but it’s going to take a long time.
As for the other statistics, they’re just not a good comparison without context. You know twice as many people died cycling in London alone than in Taiwan last year, but I felt a damn site safer cycling there. You need deaths/km traveled or something if you want any kinds of meaningful comparisons.
I personally think the bicycle paths are good enough here for now. They’re at the bottom of a long list of things that I think need sorting out first.[/quote]
The problem is it won’t be fixed if people don’t say anything. I don’t think it will get better. It’s not in the Chinese psyche.
[quote=“wereldomroep”][quote=“ShutUpLegs”][quote=“wereldomroep”]
But the laws are based on Dutch cycling path rules. As they said they are nearly a carbon copy. If you have rule then they should be enforced.[/quote]
wereldomroep, I understand what you’re getting at but you’re comparing the most cycling friendly country in the world to probably one of the worst. Cycling paths in the UK have just as many idiots blocking them. Rules being enforced? just look at everything in taiwan, traffic rules, health and safety, food safety, everything is just ignored on a massive scale. I believe it will get better but it’s going to take a long time.
As for the other statistics, they’re just not a good comparison without context. You know twice as many people died cycling in London alone than in Taiwan last year, but I felt a damn site safer cycling there. You need deaths/km traveled or something if you want any kinds of meaningful comparisons.
I personally think the bicycle paths are good enough here for now. They’re at the bottom of a long list of things that I think need sorting out first.[/quote]
The problem is it won’t be fixed if people don’t say anything. I don’t think it will get better. It’s not in the Chinese psyche.[/quote]
And its obviously not in the Dutch psyche to come to a country and accept that not everything will be the same as home…
[quote=“wereldomroep”]
The problem is it won’t be fixed if people don’t say anything. I don’t think it will get better. It’s not in the Chinese psyche.[/quote]
I agree, but believe it or not, Taiwanese people do care about these things (along with many other things expats on this forum think Taiwanese are oblivious to) and they do complain and say something about it. I know because my girlfriend works in government dealing with some of these things, although not cycling related stuff.
You have to remember, unlike the Netherlands and many other parts of Europe, which have a long sporting and recreational cycling heritage, recreational cycling here in Taiwan is relatively new. Almost five years ago when I first came here for a holiday I cycled up YMS and hardly saw a soul. You ride up there any weekend now and it’s a sea of pink Rapha gilets. The youbikes are also relatively new too.
Slowly more and more people here will press the government to the point where they will have to take notice. It will take a lot of time and more people, and possibly little will happen by the time I leave, but I think things will get better slowly. If you don’t, well there’s not much point in complaining about it on a forum really is there.
[quote=“ShutUpLegs”]I agree, but believe it or not, Taiwanese people do care about these things (along with many other things expats on this forum think Taiwanese are oblivious to) and they do complain and say something about it. I know because my girlfriend works in government dealing with some of these things, although not cycling related stuff.
You have to remember, unlike the Netherlands and many other parts of Europe, which have a long sporting and recreational cycling heritage, recreational cycling here in Taiwan is relatively new. Almost five years ago when I first came here for a holiday I cycled up YMS and hardly saw a soul. You ride up there any weekend now and it’s a sea of pink Rapha gilets. The youbikes are also relatively new too.
Slowly more and more people here will press the government to the point where they will have to take notice. It will take a lot of time and more people, and possibly little will happen by the time I leave, but I think things will get better slowly. If you don’t, well there’s not much point in complaining about it on a forum really is there.[/quote]
Where is my upvote button?!
I like this thread. Of course numbers need some context, but there so much of Taiwan on those numbers
[quote=“ShutUpLegs”]You have to remember, unlike the Netherlands and many other parts of Europe, which have a long sporting and recreational cycling heritage, recreational cycling here in Taiwan is relatively new. Almost five years ago when I first came here for a holiday I cycled up YMS and hardly saw a soul. You ride up there any weekend now and it’s a sea of pink Rapha gilets. The youbikes are also relatively new too.
[/quote]
I can’t agree with this. Bicycles are a traditional mean of transport here, so it should be already respected and be accepted as part of the traffic here. The problem is how selfish (most of) drivers are here. When I started to ride motorcycle years ago, every dingle commute here drove me nuts. It was incredible to my eyes.
Now, I don’t think that Taiwan is not bikes friends. Even if officially there’s no taxes in Taiwan for promoting and supporting bicycle infrastructures, the fact is that there’s a lot of them. And they need maintenance, you know… all that mud and all those branches that needs to be cleared after each Typhoon costs $$$.
Perhaps another reason for having a high number of casualties is the amount of people (not only riders, which btw, it’s a high number no doubt!). There is people everywhere… so there are cars everywhere too. I’ve been stuck in traffic jams at 1:00 AM (it’s not a typo), in a mountain.
But yeah, there’s a lot of selfishness. Sometimes poverty leads to awesome expressions of the best human feelings and attitudes. Sometimes not. What I can see here is that if you have money you have to show it off (perhaps even more than in old Europe). If you have a car, a tie, and a position in a big company, hey little bastards, get out of my way!
I can’t agree with this. Bicycles are a traditional mean of transport here, so it should be already respected and be accepted as part of the traffic here. The problem is how selfish (most of) drivers are here. When I started to ride motorcycle years ago, every dingle commute here drove me nuts. It was incredible to my eyes.
[/quote]
I have to agree and disagree with you on this. Bicycles are a traditional means of transport, yes. However, ShutUpLegs is saying they are not a traditional recreational sport here in Taiwan. A recreational sport with more history here in Taiwan would probably be baseball, not cycling. I know baseball probably dates back all the way to Japanese occupation.
