Death of Self-Esteem? Oh dear me!

When even the liberal Washington Post prints articles like these…

Really? Let’s find out…

The liberal Brookings Institute? What is it now? Republican? on its educational platform? Does this mean that all those teachers and “educators” preaching this nonsense from the 1970s hell even the 1960s were wrong? Oh dear me! Let’s read more…

[quote]Happiness, Relevance and Math Scores
A new Brookings Institution report analyzes survey and test data from the 2003 Trends in International Mathematics and Science Study. It found disconnects between performance and other factors. According to the Washington think tank’s annual Brown Center report on education, 6 percent of Korean eighth-graders surveyed expressed confidence in their math skills, compared with 39 percent of U.S. eighth-graders. But a respected international math assessment showed Koreans scoring far ahead of their peers in the United States, raising questions about the importance of self-esteem. In Japan, the report found, 14 percent of math teachers surveyed said they aim to connect lessons to students’ lives, compared with 66 percent of U.S. math teachers. Yet the U.S. scores in eighth-grade math trail those of the Japanese, raising similar questions about the importance of practical relevance.

Tom Loveless, the report’s author, said that the findings do not mean that student happiness causes low achievement. But he wrote that his analysis of the international math assessment, the 2003 Trends in International Mathematics and Science Study, shows that U.S. schools should not be too quick to assume that happiness is what matters in the classroom.

“It is interesting that people grasp this notion in other areas of self-improvement – eating healthy foods, getting exercise, saving for retirement – but when it comes to education, for some reason, the limitations of happiness are forgotten,” Loveless wrote. Several countries in Asia and some in Europe tend to beat the United States in math scores, even though their students show less satisfaction with performance and less love of math, and even though the lessons they receive are less “relevant,” the report found. The report is likely to stoke a debate over teaching math and other subjects that has divided the United States for at least a century. Progressives say that what students choose to study and how they feel about education should matter as much, or more, in the classroom than test results; traditionalists say that gain requires some pain and that tests matter. Alfie Kohn, a progressive author and lecturer, questioned the findings. “Let me get this straight,” Kohn said. “Kids who get higher scores on standardized tests are unhappy and self-doubting, so that means we should question the importance of happiness and self-confidence, rather than the importance of these tests?”[/quote]

But THIS is the part that I loved best…

[quote]Chester E. Finn Jr., president of the D.C.-based Thomas B. Fordham Foundation, said the report shows that schools need not be fun to be effective. "
Schools should work on academics, not feelings,
" Finn said. “True self-esteem, self-confidence and happiness are born of true achievement.”[/quote]

Oh dear! Standards are more important than feelings? How can this be? haha

washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co … 01298.html

Keep in mind that in Korea, Japan and Taiwan more difficult math is taught at an earlier age than in the USA. These countries, though, while they have rigorous middle and high schools, tend to slack off in university. If they tested for math knowledge in adults, I think the USA would do better. I personally have never before met so many people who could not do simple arithmetic in their heads as here, in Taiwan. I had several teaching assistans at Kojen who had to use their fingers to add up the scores in simple games; one of them is right now studying for an MBA in the states. I wouldn’t want an accountant who couldn’t add up 6 + 7 in her head, but maybe that’s just me.
In the case of Korea: well, I guess that if American parents and schools forced children to study 18 hours a day and beat them with sticks whenever they made a mistake, their test scores might be higher. I still don’t think it would be a good idea. Education’s goal should not be to produce 14-year-olds competent at the rote recitation of facts, but little else, but to produce competent adults.
I don’t think the type of education in public schools in Canada and the USA is great, either, by the way. I just really cannot bear to see the Korean system held up as a model or standard.

Fred Smith’s posts are always better than mine :frowning:

To quote a film I saw, ‘Low self-esteem is sounding like simple common sense in your case.’

See if we had school vouchers, kids wouldn’t have to be exposed to this libral crap.

Now, wasn’t that an amusing dialogue with an amazingly effective sequence of responses. Let’s look at Big Fluffy Matthews and assume that Buttercup is speaking in response to him… and then of course Namahottie chimes in about vouchers but I think that she may have missed her deadline Aug. 31 to come back and tell me how the public school system in inner cities is actually succeeding. I guess that I will just have to wait and wait and wait… haha

I’m waiting for the raputure. So, get in line… :laughing: (sorry to take it OT)

Well, in that case, maybe I had better throw Fredfest V: Keeping it Alive to get you Champagned up and then pry the details out of you… Maybe I can even give you a voucher? haha

I could use another one of those, solely for the laughter. Seriously. Can it be planned anytime soon? Seriously.

The ripened fruit of “Outcome based teaching”…and it stinks.

International Rankings for 15-year-olds (No Taiwan :frowning: )

Math:
Hong Kong (China)
Finland
South Korea
Netherlands
Liechtenstein
Japan
Canada
Belgium
Macao (China)
Switzerland
Australia
New Zealand
Czech Republic
Iceland
Denmark
France
Sweden
Austria
Germany
Ireland
Slovak Republic
Norway
Luxembourg
Poland
Hungary
Spain
Latvia
United States

Reading:
Finland 1 1
South Korea 2 3
Canada 2 5
Australia 3 6
Liechtenstein 2 6
New Zealand 4 7
Ireland 6 10
Sweden 7 10
Netherlands 7 11
Hong Kong (China) 7 12
Belgium 9 12
Norway 11 18
Switzerland 12 20
Japan 12 22
Macao (China) 12 19
Poland 12 21
France 12 22
United States 12 23
Denmark 15 24
Iceland 17 24
Germany 15 24
Austria 14 25
Latvia 14 25
Czech Republic 17 25
Hungary 24 28
Spain 24 29
Luxembourg 25 29
Portugal 25 30
Italy

Science:

Finland 1 3
Japan 1 3
Hong Kong (China) 2 4
South Korea 2 4
Liechtenstein 5 11
Australia 5 10
Macao (China) 5 10
Netherlands 5 11
Czech Republic 5 11
New Zealand 6 11
Canada 8 12
Switzerland 10 15
France 12 16
Belgium 12 16
Sweden 13 18
Ireland 13 18
Hungary 14 19
Germany 14 21
Poland 17 22
Slovak Republic 18 25
Iceland 19 23
United States 20 27
Austria

infoplease.com/ipa/A0923110.html
International Comparison of Math, Reading, and Science Skills Among 15-Year-Olds

Which, if you do probably meaningless summations:

1 Finland
2 South Korea
3 H K
4 Liechtenstein
5 Netherlands
6 Australia
7 Canada
8 Japan
9 NZ
10 Macau

I assume Japan’s reading scores were dragged down by their horrendous writing system; I wonder if it’s a coincidence that the top two- Finland and South Korea- have a phonetically-based system?

Yes, the public school system does fail in many respects. I was schooled in a very 1970’s elementary school - we had no walls. It was open classrooms. Bad idea for a kid like me. There was too much to look at without 4 walls to reign in my attention. I’m the kid who finally started getting her 2nd grade work done instead of chatting with classmates when the teacher threatened and the did curtail my recess time. DAMN! I got that work done! I wasn’t going to miss out on the school yard, no way!

I recall my 5th grade year of math, or should I say the year I skipped math? It was supposed to be learning at your own pace. This consisted of the teacher keeping a file with pre-tests, and tests, and then post-tests. We moved through the material at our own pace . . . I was very good at it, as were several other kids. Our method? Skip right to the post-test with the answers, and then take the test. That left more time for socializing. You see the logic? Besides, math was not a subject that I found all that riveting in any case.

Talk about a retarded way to educate kids! I’d like to throttle that 5th grade math teacher, and the idiots who came up with wall-less classrooms. Now that same elementary school has walls in it’s interior. Ooops.

So . . . I didn’t become an engineer or a computer scientist . . . not that I would have even if I hadn’t gotten tracked into the average math class in middle school and high school.

I do wish my parents had had the resources to send me to a private school, though. I would have been ready to take off in the first few years of college rather than spend that time learning how to learn. Oh well, thank goodness for good higher education, right? Sometimes I wonder if I could’ve translated a private school education coupled with a solid uni degree into more cash flow in adulthood?

At any rate, I don’t think that promoting self esteem, and good math and science skills is mutually exclusive. I agree with another poster that it makes me cringe to think of the educating styles in Asia as models for the rest of us. I agree with Fred that a little more edumacating is in order, however. You know, a little less coddling and a little more prodding.

Bodo

They did say COUNTRIES. :wink: Odd that they included Macau and Hong Kong, but not the mainland. Maybe they’re not considered industrialized?

They did say COUNTRIES. :wink: Odd that they included Macau and Hong Kong, but not the mainland. Maybe they’re not considered industrialized?[/quote]
Having had the misfortune of living in Sichuan, I can vouch that the mainland is certainly not an industrialized, developed country. There are more than a billion Chinese who live nowhere near the shining towers of downtown Shanghai.