I like how embryopoet put it, that “nature is the foundation, the lump of clay if you will; nurture is the difference, the artist’s tempered hands that mold raw clay into a work of art.” But I feel there’s one other significant factor, and that is chance.
A person might end up in prison instead of as an athlete or politician due to running into the wrong person or situation or making one bad decision – finding a fork in the road and taking the spoon. Likewise, one could end up as a teacher or a lawyer, a preacher or a pornographer, depending in part on pure chance – based on random meetings, circumstances and decisions whose consequences often cannot be anticipated. Such chance circumstances play a role in determining our careers, our mates, our residence and whether we are happy or sad, angry or calm, alive or dead, members of Segue or of Tealit.
This sounds good, but a better way to put it is “Nature is the medium; nuture is the difference, the artist’s…”. But maybe that’s what you meant. If you give a photographer clay, he won’t do as good a job as he would with a camera and film. Just like some parents get kids whose gene’s don’t match their parinting style. Children aren’t things that can be molded into what we want.
How people react to these (so called) “chance” situations is what ultimatly makes the person. These forks in the road and how one chooses to use them is what I mean by nature subtly guiding a person. I’m not saying that all people in prison deserve to be there, but when someone ends up there, they still get to decide how to use the time. Look at The Huracane or people who decide to brake out.
The Hurricane is a great example. As Bob Dylan said, “he could’ve been champion of the world,” but instead, due solely to police corruption and a crime that he had nothing to do with, instead he spent a huge chunk of his life (20 years?) in prison. That’s not nature or nurture but just real bad luck. Shit happens. Of course nature and nurture are also very important, but much of life is just a result of random chance.
It takes a great deal of the right nurturing (by design or by chance) to keep our evil or merely undesirable propensities in check. As nature creates us with differing propensities, some need more nurturing than others. Generally speaking, this is one context in which taming nature has more to be said in its favour than against.
this element of chance…so crucial to the forces of nurture and one’s social place to excel. for instance, there’s mad dudes who are mad talented who may come from oh-so-not-so-endowed social positions; the kinds of forks-in-the-road that are presented to them are oftimes particularly different than than the mad talented dude who grows up going to Montessori and private schools.
the kind of social nurturing one is privileged to receive as they grow out of their natural mold…er…essence…er…(all these words are so loaded!)…all so dependent on chance: where one grows up geographically-be it rural vs. urban, western vs. non-western, poverty-stricken or affluent; parents, attentive or neglectful, supportive or competitive or incompetent; schooling; friendships; employment experiences…does destiny still have a room at the inn?
i’m feelin this discussion…and i’m all the way in america! (don’t worry, i’m on my way soon…it’s not “random” that i’ve found this message board :-))
MT, you can’t use my examples to prove YOUR point :x . But now I understand what your getting at. It’s true that life deals us bad cards (sorry bout the analogy) some times, but I think that how we use them is a bigger measure of ourselves. I think how we react in these “chance” (and all) situations is being guided by our nature.
Even the Hurricane (according to the movie) got into that big mess with that cop because when he was a kid he had enough fire (the nature) to stick up for his friend (I know it was just a movie).
This is a little off topic, but I think these chance situations are better labeled karma (in my book). Some one explained karma as beeing cause and effect, that’s all. When I look at it that way, chance situations don’t seem so chance. Don’t get me wrong, bad things DO happen to good people even if they don’t deserve it, but it’s still cause and effect (aka karma).
I don’t think good parenting makes a child the “popular kid” (or quiet kid, cry baby) at school. I see it now with 2 and 3 year old’s. This natural personality will follow them all the way 'till their 80 years old.
It’s true that life deals us bad cards (sorry bout the analogy) some times, but I think that how we use them is a bigger measure of ourselves. I think how we react in these “chance” (and all) situations is being guided by our nature.