Define 'synthetic' oil

Life Cars & Motorcycles
1

[quote=“redwagon”][quote=“Battery9”]does yours smoke a lot? Is there any kind of environmental plug you can add to an exhaust…or shall I just put one of those masks over it haha[/quote]:

If you put some decent synthetic 2T in the tank I bet it would run with a lot less smoke. [/quote]

I was in Carrefour today and had a look at the readily available “quality” 2 stroke oils. (Kymco, Yamalube, Castrol 2T and Mobil 2T.

None of them seem to claim, in the bottle-blurb, to be “synthetic”.

IIRC, in the past you’ve recommended the Kymco stuff, which figures as, (in Carrefour at least) its the most expensive. The Kymco blurb is pretty Chingloid, so they might have missed the “synthetic” marketting trick. The others English is OK, so I guess they aren’t synthetic. The Mobil blurb uses a phrase similar to “quality base stock”, which suggests its not synthetic to me.

I’ve read somewhere, though, that the legal definition of “synthetic” oil is different in the US, where it includes hydrocracked mineral oil, so perhaps you’re using synthetic in that sense.

I’d guess the particular “synthetic” base might be different anyway, since the qualities required are different. Long term thermal stability is presumably irrelevant for 2T oil, and 4T oil doesn’t need to be clean-burning.

2

[quote=“Ducked”]The Mobil blurb uses a phrase similar to “quality base stock”, which suggests its not synthetic to me.
[/quote]

I was thought that synthetic oil is a oil where the molecule has been modified into a composition that don’t exists in the base.
All oils bases are heavy fractions that can’t be distilled at atmospheric pressure without going to harmful temperatures.
They are distilled under vacuum to lower the boiling point. I think the Germans made synthetic fuels from coal when there oil supplies where running short in 1945.

I think I had a hangower the day mobile came to my class to teatch us about there products and it’s been 10 year so I might be slightly wrong.

I quite sure the mobile1 2-t I bought was marked synthetic.

3

[quote=“Stian”][quote=“Ducked”]The Mobil blurb uses a phrase similar to “quality base stock”, which suggests its not synthetic to me.
[/quote]

I was thought that synthetic oil is a oil where the molecule has been modified into a composition that don’t exists in the base.
All oils bases are heavy fractions that can’t be distilled at atmospheric pressure without going to harmful temperatures.
They are distilled under vacuum to lower the boiling point. I think the Germans made synthetic fuels from coal when there oil supplies where running short in 1945.

I think I had a hangower the day mobile came to my class to teatch us about there products and it’s been 10 year so I might be slightly wrong.

I quite sure the mobile1 2-t I bought was marked synthetic.[/quote]

I think “synthetic” means it been synthesised, ie. built up from simple molecules like methane or ethylene, so that the final product is fully defined. Made rather than found.

This would exclude chemically modified base stocks, which are still complex mixtures, though the best of them may have similar performance to a “real” synthetic.

I think this technical definition generally matches the legal definition, which determines whether the description “synthetic” can be used in advertising.

The exception is the United States, where its my understanding that, following a “the law is an ass” test case, there is no legal definition. In the US, “synthetic” just means “quality”, which, strictly speaking, doesn’t mean anything, though it may be that the required performance level is legally defined (?) In practice, the term seems to be often applied to good quality modified base stocks.

Since we are not in the US, that may be why none of the packages I saw mentioned “synthetic”. Because they weren’t.

This guy, who’s been quoted in oil discussions on here before, and gives a good summary of oil classification, mentions a Mobil lawsuit re the changing US definition of “synthetic”, so I guess thats it.

http://www.calsci.com/motorcycleinfo/Oils1.html

“In the late 1990s, Castrol started selling an oil made from Group III base oil and called it SynTec Full Synthetic. Mobil sued Castrol, asserting that this oil was not synthetic, but simply a highly refined petroleum oil, and therefore it was false advertising to call it synthetic. In 1999, Mobil lost their lawsuit. It was decided that the word “synthetic” was a marketing term and referred to properties, not to production methods or ingredients. Castrol continues to make SynTec out of Group III base oils, that is highly purified mineral oil with most all of the cockroach bits removed.”

4

Yes. I tend to pay more attention to engineers than lawyers on topics like this. I call these hyper-refined petrochemical Class-III oils semi-synthetic. A full synthetic to me is something made from Polyol Ether base stock. I personally swear by Redline oils and buy them direct from the importer.

Taiwan is almost as bad as China for the malarkey that goes on with motor oil. I could probably name a dozen brands of oil which sell for high price and claim to be made from angel tears and melted gold Krugerrands when in fact they are based on recycled sump oil and fancy colored dyes. For the most part I won’t buy anything that was repackaged here. The one exception to that is a 2T I have mentioned many times before as being of very high quality and reasonable price, the Kymco oil specifically formulated for the NSR, refined in Japan and repackaged by Kymco. Yamalube used to have a good 2T called Power Gold, but I haven’t seen it in about a decade. I don’t think either of them was synthetic but they were both very good oils… never had or saw a meltdown or seizure caused by poor lubrication in a motor running those oils.

5

[quote=“redwagon”][quote=“Ducked”]
I think “synthetic” means it been synthesised, ie. built up from simple molecules like methane or ethylene, so that the final product is fully defined. Made rather than found.
[/quote]
Yes. I tend to pay more attention to engineers than lawyers on topics like this. I call these hyper-refined petrochemical Class-III oils semi-synthetic. A full synthetic to me is something made from Polyol Ether base stock. I personally swear by Redline oils and buy them direct from the importer.

Taiwan is almost as bad as China for the malarkey that goes on with motor oil.[/quote]

Yep…Was down at Subaru the other day and a salesman came to show me a quart of this ‘EuroSynthese’ oil that he claimed was good for 30,000km oil change intervals…Everything was written in German on he bottle except for a little tag on the front that read ‘High Quality Oil from German’ (no ‘y’)…clearly something bottled here under some scam…they were selling this magic oil for the bargain basement price of 800$NT a quart…I’ll stick to my RedLine stuff thanks.

6

[quote=“Captain Stag”]

Yep…Was down at Subaru the other day and a salesman came to show me a quart of this ‘EuroSynthese’ oil that he claimed was good for 30,000km oil change intervals…Everything was written in German on he bottle except for a little tag on the front that read ‘High Quality Oil from German’ (no ‘y’)…clearly something bottled here under some scam…they were selling this magic oil for the bargain basement price of 800$NT a quart…I’ll stick to my RedLine stuff thanks.[/quote]

My sister in laws boyfriend bought some magic oil made in the USA a few years back. I was quite proud when he showed me the bottle witch I turned around and could not find a single code from ACEA or API.
I told him it was a oil I would newer use witch he replied “why? It’s made in America”
In the service manual there is specified which oil you should use and that anyone would use oils that don’t have this specifications or better while the car is still under warranty is for me pure stupidity, but then we are in a country where men in there 40’s don’t know how to change a spark plug.

7

[quote=“redwagon”][quote=“Ducked”]
I think “synthetic” means it been synthesised, ie. built up from simple molecules like methane or ethylene, so that the final product is fully defined. Made rather than found.
[/quote]

I call these hyper-refined petrochemical Class-III oils semi-synthetic…[/quote]

Well, no one can stop you, but doing so blurs the distinction you just made. I think semi-synthetic (at least outside the US) is correctly used to refer to a mineral oil that’s been “spiked” with fully synthetic oil.

Didn’t know about the Power Gold, though I’ve used the current Yamalube 2T and the Kymco stuff.

Given that neither of these is synthetic, what would be an example of a “decent synthetic 2T”, as recommended to the OP in the original thread? (Though no longer of interest to the OP, it is to me and maybe others)