Delicate situation

I have a class with a couple of taiwanese adolescents girls and one of them seems to be suffering quite a case of gender confusion. It’s not hard to see why as she does have a sort of boyish appearance. I don’t think this is at all uncommon. A lot of Taiwanese boys look quite a lot like girls too. Anyway the issue seems to have caused some turmoil in her life as I suspect some of the other kids may have been quite insensitive in their treatment of her. At least that is the feeling I get. It is one of those rhinoceros head on the diner table deals. Everybody knows it’s there but nobody will talk about it directly. I really enjoyed this girls energy and intelligence but she started dressing and behaving more like a boy recently and with that I have observed some disturbance of mood. She is still the person I know and like, but she seems to want to make a point of being a bit, I guess rude, for lack of a better term. I’m no expert in things like this and do not intend to start counselling her but if anyone could give me any sort of guidance about how to be helpful to a person like her I would certainly appreciate it. Thanks.

Mind your own business.

Seems a delicate situation for you to step into. Maybe refer to counselling with no reference as to why she should go other than she seems troubled.

I used to have a class of teenagers in Spain. There was one girl who was, for want of a better expression, “the class smelly”. I mean, no-one wanted to sit beside her, she actually did have B.O. She wasn’t “cool”, etc. She was REALLY quiet, mostly because she was so intimidated by the other students.

I was especially careful with this student and made sure she had the opportunity to be the one to give me the correct answer at the right time, etc. I made sure I paired her up with the nicer students when it came to doing pairwork or groupwork.

She started to get more confident and also started to make some friends in class. Then she actually started to get “cool”. It was great to see. With this coolness came the inevitable “too cool for school” attitude (not in a big way, but it was there). I realised that this was the time to stop helping her, as that kinda made her uncool again.

To tell the truth, I was happy, as she was starting to become just like the other kids.

I guess what I’m trying to say here, bob, is that maybe your student is just getting a bit rebellious because she’s a teenager who’s going through some normal changes. Maybe you just have to not give her any special treatment as this might make her feel awkward.
Good luck.

Feiren, I have to say your comment is less than useful.

That’s a really tough situation, and one you shouldn’t walk into if you’re not qualified to handle such a case. The most difficult thing about it is the support or lack of support she will get from her family and peers. Referring her to a counsellor is a good idea, but only if it is one who is open-minded enough to work with someone with her issues. Taiwanese culture is not so open and accepting of these things, so it’s fair to assume that many counsellors will be biased.

Even here in the west where things are a bit more open, one needs to be carefully matched with a therapist who is open and able to work with the individual on those issues without letting biases get in the way of effectively treating the person.

All in all, it’s very touchy, and talking to her about it could help, but it could also make things worse. She may not be willing to discuss it due to feelings of shame and guilt put on her from those in her environment.

I think the only wise thing to do in your situation is to stay out of it. It may be difficult, but it may also be the best thing as there are so many
what ifs and it’s really outside your job as her teacher. If you suspect it to be something putting her in danger, either from herself or others, then there are ways you can report it without getting yourself involved.

As for her behaviour in class, it very well might have something to do with things going on outside the class due to her interactions with others. However, you can address specifically her behaviour in class and set the limits and expectations. Be compassionate but stern. If she feels safe and trusting toward you, there’s no reason she should be acting out at you. Again, if it seems to be something serious, like abuse, going on, then report it to someone who can do something about it and stay out of it.

Thanks guys. I think even Feirens “advice” may have been better considered than it appeared. I am not a professional counselor and I know that by pretending to be one I could do a lot of damage. I do however spend two hours a week with someone who seems to be having some difficulty accepting herself as she is and if there is some way I could help her with that I would like to do so. It helps that I happen to honestly like her. She is bright and curious about things and seems remarkably composed for a person her age. If I make a point of just being real with her it seems to go down well.

There is really no possibility of playing the authority card with these two. The father says that I can teach them whatever I want as long as they keep coming. What that means is that these two kids really are the boss. If I can keep them entertained and build a nice relationship then I have a class. If not I don’t.

If there is anyone out there who felt or feels the way this girl appears to feel I would love to hear from you. I suspect that you are the ones who will be best able to advise me on what attitude to take. Thanks.

Bob, of course I’ve only got what you’ve written to go on, but it doesn’t seem like there’s much of a problem here. A girl is experimenting with gender roles or the way she dresses, maybe making choices about her sexuality and getting a hard time for it from her classmates, so she’s started being a bit rude as a defence mechanism.

Why on earth would counselling or your (well-intentioned) interference help?

I suggest you just be supportive of her in class and try and control the effect of her classmates giving her a hard time (without making a big issue of it).

Brian

He (intentional use of that pronoun) probably has gender dysphoria OR will grow up to become the friendly neighbourhood butch dyke (gay woman with masculine apprearance).

Everyone is coming down on this kid. He probably has a girlfriend, too, if he is older than 14.

My advice is stick to intellectual stuff, steer away from identity-based topics, and just respect his intellect. Good news is that the dad sounds cool…there is not much that you can do as a foreigner…and sounds like you really like him…trust me when I say that you are one of the few persons in this young persons life who actually looks him in the eye.

Taiwan has one of the highest rates of post-operative female-to-male sex change ratios in the world, if not the highest. His family will deal with it.

If your concern is preventing her from going gay, then butt out as that’s her business and her business alone.

If your concern is about whether she’ll be treated fairly/equally or not by other students, I’d suggest you simply make sure you treat her fairly/equally and defend her only in situations where you’d defend anyone. The idea being to treat her the same as everyone else.

You won’t (and shouldn’t try to) alleviate 100% of the stress she might received due to her looks or orientation. She’ll need to learn to deal with that her self eventually.

How’s her English coming along?

[quote=“Bu Lai En”]Bob, of course I’ve only got what you’ve written to go on, but it doesn’t seem like there’s much of a problem here. A girl is experimenting with gender roles or the way she dresses, maybe making choices about her sexuality and getting a hard time for it from her classmates, so she’s started being a bit rude as a defence mechanism.

Why on earth would counselling or your (well-intentioned) interference help?

I suggest you just be supportive of her in class and try and control the effect of her classmates giving her a hard time (without making a big issue of it).

Brian[/quote]

Not sure you guys get what I’m driving at here. I’m not suggesting she get counselling because she looks like a boy or because she may or may not be gay. I’m not suggesting counseling at all. What I want to know is how do I let her know (somebody says I should call her he but that is not how she refers to herself) that whatever she is, or feels, or decides is OK by me. If I do that I’m doing something worthwhile in my opinion. The problem is that the issue is sort of skirted around all the time. There it is but nobody talks about it…

Ah heck I guess what somebody said was right. Treat her with friendliness and respect and literally forget about the issues that are way beyond me.

Bob, I think the best thing you can do for this kid is protect her right to not be abused in your class. I do not allowed fun poking by other students. If they persist, I give them the “Who do you think you are?” speech.

There are a thousand reasons a girl might choose to dress boyish and gender confusion is only one of them.

I have to agree here that you aren’t a counsellor, so don’t try to be one. You can take her aside and ask her if everything thing is ok at home though (some sexually abused girls try to dress like boys to make themselves less attractice: and this is an extreme assumption, ok?)

Other than that, be the teacher, teach her and protect her right to be whoever she wants to be.

jds

After reading all the replies up to this point, I can only agree with Ferien’s posting of, “It’s none of your business”. Truly, it is none of the business of any teacher (in the commonly accepted term of our existence here) to try to change the personal attitudes of any student, much less an adolescent.

Is not your job to teach English? How are we sufficeintly armed to judge the psychological state of anyone, much less our own selves? Even so, how and why should it become a concern of ours? I have a moral contract with my students to teach them my language. Even though through time I may observe a particular student going off on a tangent that society in general may or may not accept, unless it is an action or expressed attitude that disrupts the learning environment of my classroom, I would certainly be hard pressed to take that particulat student to task.

Adolescents go through many (sometimes bizarre, to us) phases seeking their validation and place in the world.

To the OP, my advice is this: Patience (if the student’s persona truly offends or worrys you), patience, and patience. Now, what is your role in all of this? Make sure that this student, along with all the rest of the class, receives the best English education you can give. That is your purpose, right?

BTW folks, I once had a 13-year-old tom boy who was always hanging around (really) on her female classmates. A few of the other girls kinda gave her the cold shoulder, but she was smart enough to ignore them. In the end, she quickly became the best student in the class. She always wore jeans, a blue plaid flannel shirt and a head band. She is now 20, a sophomore in college with a boy friend, and very feminine. Through our contacts over the past years, I have seen her complete her metamorphosis.

OP, you have nothing to worry about. Just teach English.

I second JD’s comments but I really don’t think we should jump to any conclusion about her being sexually abused…and, yeah, she is young enough to ‘experiment’ with nearly anything at that age, especially gender roles…but if she keeps experimenting for a couple of years and is enduring all kinds of discrimination, is resisting pressure to appear and act more feminine, and suffering through outright bullying, then maybe it’s not an experiment anymore.

Some good teachers on this board.

[quote=“Kick-Stand”]I second JD’s comments but I really don’t think we should jump to any conclusion about her being sexually abused…and, yeah, she is young enough to ‘experiment’ with nearly anything at that age, especially gender roles…but if she keeps experimenting for a couple of years and is enduring all kinds of discrimination, is resisting pressure to appear and act more feminine, and suffering through outright bullying, then maybe it’s not an experiment anymore.

Some good teachers on this board.[/quote]

Nor did I suggest this…I said it was an “extreme assumption” and by that did not mean to imply that there’s any shred of proof in that comment.

If there is any trust built up between the teacher and the student, a simple, “Everything going all right?” might be sufficient for the girl to know that someone is noticing something about her, and that may be a good thing in that she may think, “Well SOMEONE cares.”

jds

JD, has anyone told you that you are a caring and thoughtful teacher? hug

No, seriously…you rule. Good comment.

[quote=“Kick-Stand”]JD, has anyone told you that you are a caring and thoughtful teacher? hug

No, seriously…you rule. Good comment.[/quote]

I simply have a very good memory of what is was like to be a frsutrated/troubled child/adolescent, and I know what I would have liked. :slight_smile:

Thank you.

I showed up for class last week and sat at my usual seat which happens to be right beside the computer. Sitting there was a piece of paper with a list of web site addresses with names like transgender. com etc. There was about ten sites. I don’t know for sure that they left it there for me to see but they didn’t make any effort to hide it that is for sure. People like to talk about the things that are troubling them and I suspect that eventually they will be bending my ear with this one. If that happens I really have no idea what to say other than that in my humble opinion it essential that a person be true to themselves, but that it sometimes takes time and a certain amount of experimentation to know what that self really is. I am certainly open to a bit of guidence here so long as it is not from someone with an axe to grind. Thanks.

Bob, do you think the student left that list of sites for you or do you think that other people in the school did?//

If the student did, that’s kind of cute; it means that he/she really wants to connect with you…but if the school did that, then I don’t think it is right for them to ask you to deal with this situation instead of them dealing with it themselves…and if other students left that list, it might not have been left entirely in good faith…

Might want to talk to the dad somewhere down the road and get his take on it. There are a ton of trans resources in Taipei, incl. resources for trans youth…believe it or not…

If she is rude in class, like you stated, then concentrate on that. Treat her the way you treat all your other students. If she is rude to you or somebody, punish her. If your students are rude to her, punish them.

I’m sure that her hormones are freaking her out right now. A lot of times when girls realise that they are lesbian, they get all ‘manly’. And in the gay community it gets rewarded. Girls need to choose between being ‘T’ or ‘P’. She sounds like a ‘T’, the husband. They act more masculine, dress in mens clothing,bind their breasts, get the haircut etc. It is a tough world!

Do you ask any of the other students about their sexual preferences? I wouldn’t go there if I were you!

Some of you imply that it not the business of a teacher.

This shows how little you understand the people you claim to teach. For Taiwanese, your job as a teacher is to be an advisor. Elements of Confucian roles/identities are psychosemantically imbeded in their language and they are inescapable. A capable and effective teacher in Taiwan is a mentor.

If you wish to be an EFL instructor then, “mind your own business”; which is damn good advice in this regard.

However, if you wish to be a teacher in this context, you should investigate what your intuition indicates is a behavior worth mentoring. A teacher brings their worldview into the classroom, just as students do. There is nothing wrong with this, even though the increasingly politically correct and sklavmoral fence-sitters will tell you otherwise.

Their learning attitudes, styles and perceptions are our business. These are a student’s personal characteristics and are the domain of a teacher. Learning is a life long process of development that is dependent on social interaction. Social interaction between students, between students and teachers profoundly influence the cognitive development of the student and this, in my opinion, is an important part of our work. Role and self-image is a part of social interaction.

In this case the girl may be acheiving self-awareness as a homosexual…which is normal. There is much to prepare her for in this homophobic society. It may be she is going through a “reactionary period” because her brother showed her hardcore double-penetration on the Internot. Here may be something critical to stabilize. There are many reasons, hormonal, environmental, psychological, that may be causing this behavior to manifest. What’s wrong with exploring them? Are we all so fragile?

It seems to me that many Taiwanese girls become 男人婆 (nan ren po) or “TB” or pseudolesbians because their male classmates, male society in general and older women are so disappointing to them. It is easy to see how the educational and economic empowerment of women in Taiwanese society, with its entrenched male-chauvinism and favoritism, produces a personal dissatisfaction with being born “woman”. Taiwan’s female society is developing to the stage of “I can be just like a man!” (What a pathetically worthless goal!) It is not surprising that many young women wish to assert their sexuality and personal power without all of the fucking social taboo and emotional baggage that other sklavmoral Taiwanese women are more than willing to inflict on them on for “stepping out of line”. Being a Tomboy is one of strategy to avoid this kind of persecution by the SKII women. Being a Tomboy is way to register one’s dissatisfaction with the no-LP, spoon-fed Taiwanese male and their masturbation to hentai anime.

I think all of these issues are part of the personal development of women in this society and can be discussed and commented upon by the advisor and advisee. Appropriateness is relative and you need to apply the correct amount of politeness and sensitivity in your approach to these subjects. If you lack experience, I suggest patience and sympathy. Parents and teachers (in institutional setting) are too dense and brainwashed to field these questions and help form opinions in their charges.

Please, do not feel your lack of “accreditation” automatically disqualifies you from saying your piece, from bringing your wisdom, experience and knowledge to bear on what you sense is a critical issue. Of course, one must check ones prejudices and “reality paradigm” from time-to-time and continue to resource the opinions and knowledge of others so that a meaningful and effective mentoring can occur.

It