Dem Sen. Ted Kennedy's KGB Correspondence

As posted here:
flob.me/p1034493
and later with more info here:
flob.me/p1034713

The obit thread on Edward ‘Teddy’ Kennedy was a lively discussion of the now dead, and currently on the wagon, Senator, DEM, from Massachusetts.
He was a force(farce?) to be reckoned with during his long suckle at the Gov teat. Known for his boisterous antics in the Senate backrooms as well as his “waitress sandwiches” in the Georgetown bars.
A member of the Kennedy clan he wallowed in being a part of the media created “Camelot” image of the Kennedy clan. An image barely skin deep as closer scrutiny always revealed.

Now, further information has been released on Ted “The Swimmers” close contact with the KGB during his time as Senator, DEM, from Mass.

[quote]Ted Kennedy’s KGB Correspondence
i[/i]
" Sen. Edward M. Kennedy’s self-serving, secret correspondence with Soviet agents during the height of the Cold War included proposals for collaborative efforts designed to undermine official U.S. policy set by Democratic and Republican administrations, KGB documents show.

With the media now reporting on the late senator’s just released Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) file, now is an opportune time for a more expansive investigation into Kennedy’s KGB contacts. The agency took a keen interest in a 1961 “fact-finding” trip the Massachusetts Democrat took to Mexico and other parts of Latin America where he may have had contact with communist agents, according to the file. …[/quote]

Hmmm…FBI and KGB files on the ole boy…LOL

[quote]Kennedy’s long history with the KGB is well documented, but underreported. It remains available through the writings of the now deceased Vasiliy Mitrokhin, who defected to Britain from the Soviet Union in 1992, and a separate 1983 memo addressed to then General Secretary Yuri Andropov. Kennedy’s actions occurred at the expense of presidential authority and in violation of federal law, according to academics and scholars who are familiar with the documents.

The Mitrokhin papers highlight a meeting that took place at the behest of Kennedy between former Sen. John Tunney (D-Calif.) and KGB agents in Moscow on March 5, 1980. The information exchanged during this encounter is included as part of a report Mitrokhin filed with the Cold War International History Project of the Woodrow Wilson Center in Washington D.C.[/quote]
Another Senator involved. And look…He’s a …DEMOCRAT also…tsk tsk tsk…

And yet, somehow, he still gets away with…murder

Chewy now I remember who it was that cites ridiculously partisan and bullshit “articles” from hack jobs on the wingnut right…

Hey TC, do you think there is any one US senator at the time who didn’t have an FBI and a KGB file? No chance the government wasn’t fully aware of what was happening eh? No chance he was doing business for the US? None? Just who are these “academics and scholars familiar with the documents”, pray tell?

As for the murder charge, well, Kennedy’s undeniably an evil bastard for that, or was anyway… Not sure how it’s relevant to these insinuations of spying and treason tho…

I don’t give a toss about any of them dead Yanks. I’m too busy relishing the savour of “his long suckle at the government teat.” It just rolls around your mouth like fine aged port. Delicious! :laughing:

Did you read the FBI documents? They can be found here. Not only did he meet leftists but he met rightists as well - don’t see the American Spectator mentioning that, the fucks. How about when he records in his “recovered” diary from the Pan Am flight about his meeting with “Communists in Venezuela”:

[quote=“Recovered Ted Kennedy Diary”]
We sit down with twenty students taken at random. Nothing has been prepared. Only one seemed friendly. First seven questions were discussed and vindictive both on U.S. policy and me, If you visit friends houses but I doubt whether you have ever slept in mud house have you Mr. Kennedy. These students are entirely different from what we have been running up against. No question they were all real communists. They were completely lacking in logic and good information but I would if our friends would be much of a match for them.[/quote]
Keep in mind these were visits made during the height of “communist crazies”, Hoover, McCarthy, and so on, all spouting demonizations of the left, so ANY sympathy is considered bad, and they are hardly looking into right wingnuts at the time with the same voraciousness.

I found these facts in the first 5 minutes of reviewing 70 pages of the 2000 page document. Most of the doucment pages I’ve seen are tracking reports, repetitions, and are only tangentially related to political activity, so to make a fanfare about “2352 pages!!!” is ridiculous. And the article explicitly states that the FBI was looking into him because of Chappaquiddick, at Nixon’s request, because he expected to run against him in the following presidential election. Left-wing conspiracy indeed! He was targeted by the Nixon White House for explicitly partisan political reasons for christ sake, why aren’t you crying “abuse of power”!!!

What a crock of cherry-picked horseshit, TC

Back then, anyone who was less than seven degrees of separation away from anyone Crazy Joe McCarthy and his posse deemed to be a Communist was also blacklisted as a Communist. Remember, there was a Commie under every bed and behind every tree, because they were OUT TO GET US!

Wait, are you saying they weren’t out to get us!!! COMMIE COMMIE COMMIE

Sandman -
Yes, a particularly mellifluous phrase. Redolent with evocative imagery. I particularly enjoyed inserting the adjective “long” into the line. Adds a bit more…oomph!…as it were.

TT -
Dear Lad, do read the posts with a bit more comprehension before you mess our screens with your ejaculatory bursts of mental masturbation.
Its not the matter of Teddy having a KGB and/or FBI file about himself and his actions. Its what was/is [i]in[/i] the files. Mutually corroborated information showing his contact and offer to work with and accept help from the KGB. He offered his assistance to work with the KGB in matters that would be deleterious to US Gov’t procedures. Actions against other US Gov’t officials.
Do try, at the least, to follow the scenario.
He was a working US Senator, setting on who knows what committees, at the highest levels of the US government. Insert that widget into your perspective.
These are traitorous actions. The actions of the California Senator, DEM, Tunney in working to assist with this also would seem to fall under this descriptor.
Get it?
No, it seems not. It also doesn’t appear that you have the slightest knowledge of what the rules of conduct are for Gov’t officials in matters such as this. Pity that lack of knowledge does not preclude you from posting knee-jerk inanities.

Discuss the issue and all that.

Oh, and another thing…McCarthy, annoying clown that he may have been, has been proven to be right.
See…Venona Project…et al.

Have a lovely day.

[quote=“TainanCowboy”]TT -
Dear Lad, do read the posts with a bit more comprehension before you mess our screens with your ejaculatory bursts of mental masturbation.
Its not the matter of Teddy having a KGB and/or FBI file about himself and his actions. Its what was/is [i]in[/i] the files. Mutually corroborated information showing his contact and offer to work with and accept help from the KGB. He offered his assistance to work with the KGB in matters that would be deleterious to US Gov’t procedures. Actions against other US Gov’t officials.
Do try, at the least, to follow the scenario.
He was a working US Senator, setting on who knows what committees, at the highest levels of the US government. Insert that widget into your perspective.
These are traitorous actions. The actions of the California Senator, DEM, Tunney in working to assist with this also would seem to fall under this descriptor.
Get it?
No, it seems not. It also doesn’t appear that you have the slightest knowledge of what the rules of conduct are for Gov’t officials in matters such as this. Pity that lack of knowledge does not preclude you from posting knee-jerk inanities.[/quote]
Man you make me laugh, really - you sure you’re not Fred Smith’s twin brother, what with your condescension and distortion of the facts? Not only was I clear on why your claims and citations are faulty, but I actually read the relevant parts of the actual FBI file documents, and I cite them as appropriate, something you, amigo, have apparently failed to do. Because it’s extremely obvious that this is a hack job on a Dead Kennedy - and the fact is, there probably are a half dozen bad things he’s done including Chappaquiddick, but this crap article from the AS shouldn’t be taken seriously.

  1. The FBI keeps records, probably extensive, on every congressmen (and CIA as well to be sure), and those who do overseas travel probably have files 10 times as large. So the fact that there are files, and that they are “2353 pages” long has no bearing whatsoever on misdoings, despite your and the AS’s implications: DIRECT QUOTE FROM ABOVE: “Hmmm…FBI and KGB files on the ole boy…LOL”, so don’t try to act all innocent now

  2. Nixon actually asked for the FBI to look into Chappaquiddick as part of his political plan to compete against Kennedy in the next presidential elections - an abuse of power you don’t seem to care much about, instead preferring to (almost literally) beat a dead horse

  3. Kennedy as a prominent politician had every right to visit overseas groups, both in government and out, as many MANY politicians do, despite them sometimes visiting groups who you may not approve of, or who the current administration may not be friends with, so don’t act like this was all special and that he was doing something particularly bad.

  4. The actual notes made by Kennedy in the FBI files very clearly show he is visiting both for and anti leftist groups, and the papers say nothing about their being “guerrillas” or violent; his notes also make it clear he does not approve of them necessarily, and actually thinks some of them to be “foolish”. Let’s also not forget that some of the groups th US supported in the 60s-80s especially were actually the bad guys, or in any case worse than those who were painted as bad at the time (e.g. The Shah, Batista, the Contras, Pineapple-head in Panama, and so on)

  5. Any politician who went abroad in the days of the KGB probably met with people linked to Soviet Russia or actual potential KGB agents, just because Kennedy was more liberal than was allowed by MacCarthy (that is to say more left than Trent Lott)

  6. The AS doesn’t mention ANY of the mitigating factors and actual contradictory evidence, which makes them cherry-picking rabble-rousers

  7. And his father is long-time friends with Hoover, and Hoover and he have informal, personal contact outside the office - maybe Hoover was in on it too, since he was “contacting suspected soviet agents”. Hell it’s possible he was asked to visit those groups, maybe to get names etc? Please show me which documents reveal he had secret discussions with known soviet agents, and that he did so at his own instigation. Until then, you got squat.

Have you read through the documents? Or maybe even a more balanced NYT article about them? And you’re whining about me readin your posts eh, your poetic spiel of appeal can not conceal your zeal for the unreal and surreal, you oughtta stick to your Chappaquiddick wailing, at least the core of your rantings there are true.

[quote=“TainanCowboy”]Oh, and another thing…McCarthy, annoying clown that he may have been, has been proven to be right.
See…Venona Project…et al.[/quote]
I’ll accept that at face value for the trolling wake up call that it is, and a nice morning to you as well :bravo:

Fifty years from now you’ll probably see a post, “It has been proven! Obama was born in Kenya after all!”

TT -
Just focus on the OP Lad…gather that immense storehouse of potential mind power and focus on the OP.
Now…use that focus to see the facts as they are.

Kennedy…KGB…Tunney…KGB…conspiring to assist with foreign intel operatives against elected US gov’t officials…connect the dots.

C’mon…Ooooommm…Oooommmm…clear the mind…feel the power…be the power…Oooommm shakalaka…Ooommm shakalaka… :bow:

[quote=“TainanCowboy”]TT -
Just focus on the OP Lad…gather that immense storehouse of potential mind power and focus on the OP.
Now…use that focus to see the facts as they are.

Kennedy…KGB…Tunney…KGB…conspiring to assist with foreign intel operatives against elected US gov’t officials…connect the dots.

C’mon…Ooooommm…Oooommmm…clear the mind…feel the power…be the power…Oooommm shakalaka…Ooommm shakalaka… :bow:[/quote]
What you call “focusing on the OP” is really your asking us sane people to follow your conspiracy theory based on partisan shitshovelling. You make outlandish statements and snide comments, and when you’re called on 'em, you fall back to sarcasm and mindless tropes a la “KGB…Tunney…KGB” - is this what passes for opposition thought on forumosa? Quotes from right wing hack Paul Kengor from 5 years ago that prove ABSOLUTELY NOTHING?

I urge anyone interested in this thread to take a look at the original documentation and to see where TC is getting his conspiracy theories from and make your own decision.

And a “lad” I aint.

[edit] Direct from the FBI

[quote=“FBI”]
This release consists of material from seven FBI files—three Headquarters files and four field division files, totaling more then 2,200 pages. It covers the FBI’s relationship with Senator Kennedy from 1961 to 1985. At no point do these files suggest that the FBI investigated Senator Kennedy for a criminal violation or as a security threat.

Some of this material also reports on Senator Kennedy’s fact finding trip to Mexico, Central America, and South America in 1961. Given the Bureau’s long interest in the influence of Central American revolutionaries and communists on American radicals, the Bureau took an interest in Kennedy’s travels. It was also concerned with potential threats against the Senator and used its foreign liaison resources to keep an eye out for such threats.

Finally, these files contain material concerning the Kennedys and American politics. Some of the early material in the file suggests that Joseph P. Kennedy was close enough to FBI Director J. Edgar Hoover that he had called the Bureau regarding a rumor that reporter Drew Pearson was to report the Ted Kennedy had been associated with communists. Hoover assured him that the FBI had not investigated the senator and had no information to even support such a claim.[/quote]

Why is it that every single search result when I’m looking for raw sources on this topic ONLY comes up with right wing partisan and conspiracy websites? Yeah, it’s a media blackout, right?

[quote=“TwoTongues”]What you call “focusing on the OP” is really your asking us sane people to follow your conspiracy theory based on partisan shitshovelling.[/quote]Quite the contrary. I am merely presenting documentation of events that have transpired. Corroborated documentation that is supportive of the “conclusions” you wish to portray as a “conspiracy theory” of my own making. Ridiculous diversion on your part. Do you think your accusation in any way lessens this evidence?
If it were so simply dismissed it would have never gained the attention it has garnered.

[quote=“TwoTongues”]You make outlandish statements and snide comments, and when you’re called on 'em, you fall back to sarcasm and mindless tropes a la “KGB…Tunney…KGB” - is this what passes for opposition thought on forumosa?[/quote]You might check what I am responding to. It is you who launch into a tirade of useless inanities rather than engage in an exploration of the materials presented. Then you whine like a child about my responses. One tends to get the type of response one gives. Especially on the anonymous intarweb…LOL
What did your "research into Tunney turn up? What were his connections to Kennedy? To the Mexico City KGB office? I do not see you mentioning anything on him.

[quote=“FBI”]
This release consists of material from seven FBI files—three Headquarters files and four field division files, totaling more then 2,200 pages. It covers the FBI’s relationship with Senator Kennedy from 1961 to 1985. At no point do these files suggest that the FBI investigated Senator Kennedy for a criminal violation or as a security threat.

Some of this material also reports on Senator Kennedy’s fact finding trip to Mexico, Central America, and South America in 1961. Given the Bureau’s long interest in the influence of Central American revolutionaries and communists on American radicals, the Bureau took an interest in Kennedy’s travels. It was also concerned with potential threats against the Senator and used its foreign liaison resources to keep an eye out for such threats.

Finally, these files contain material concerning the Kennedys and American politics. Some of the early material in the file suggests that Joseph P. Kennedy was close enough to FBI Director J. Edgar Hoover that he had called the Bureau regarding a rumor that reporter Drew Pearson was to report the Ted Kennedy had been associated with communists. Hoover assured him that the FBI had not investigated the senator and had no information to even support such a claim.[/quote]One would do well to look at the dates of this referred to material and the dates of the related issues under discussion and the dates referred to in this FOIA request. You might also familiarize yourself with the political leaning of Mr. Drew Pearson and his history as a presstitute of the Kennedy clan. (Hint: J. Edgar died in May of '72.)

[quote=“TwoTongues”]Why is it that every single search result when I’m looking for raw sources on this topic ONLY comes up with right wing partisan and conspiracy websites? Yeah, it’s a media blackout, right?[/quote][/quote]Far be it from me to make a comment on your research skills…or lack of them.
You do seem to get rather emotionally involved in these things. Perhaps stepping back and looking at a larger picture might be of help.
Just a suggestion.

Pardon my addressing you as Lad/Laddie. It was not meant as a diminutive. Genetic thing.

Despite your turn of phrase like “shabby attempt” and “lessening what has transpired”, you haven’t actually addressed any of the problems I’ve raised with your claims. Provide some non partisan evidence for your claims of Kennedy and Tunney doing anything illegal with the KGB in Mexico City, let’s see what fair and balanced assessment of what happened you get your info from before you try to deride my sources of information. Hopefully something less right wing than stormfront.

And don’t confuse a forceful rebuttal of your partisan conspiracies with emotion, I haven’t put my fist through the screen like I did when I read one of Fred’s nonsensical and even more insulting and snide posts.

TT -
At this point in the game it is you who are obliged to present credible information rebuking the positions asserted in the OP.
You have consistently failed to do so and then added ‘couched’ terminology such as “non-partisan evidence” as the requirement to fill your needs for credibility.
But, since it is you who would judge the “non-partisan” status and since a resource actually touching this story “must” be necessarily aligned to the “rightwing” it does put a strain on things…doesn’t it?..but you, of course, understand this and thus your ‘requirements’ for what would be acceptable. Nice trick. Ain’t biting.

I am not familiar with “stormfront.” Is that a kozkids site? TPM resource?

But I’m a nice guy. Here you go. Never let it be said I denied help to a willing seeker of truth:
Tunney was a former room-mate with Kennedy.
Ted Kennedy’s Soviet Gambit

And here is a link to Tim Sabastians mentioned piece in the 1992 London Times:

Teddy, the KGB and the Top Secret File
It is a cached file, but easily readable.

weaksauce.

I think this guy made the clearest comment:

Re-entering reality now.

Quite a loadfull of class and educational snobbery in that paragraph, TT. The notion that one needs an advanced degree to do proper journalism is risible. :thumbsdown:

Riiiiight, that’s why nobody picked up on this story in the mainstream media for the past few years, and that’s why it’s going nowhere now. It doesn’t take a snob to recognize tripe, MM, and the pertinence of that comment I quoted is not that the guy has no degree, but that he was a speechwriter for reagan AND is known to be partisan, and the other guy has a unbelievable series of events, and that this is not considered news in any way shape or form. I don’t give a toss about the degrees, and in any case, I think what the guy who said it is saying is, if they did have some journalism education, they might be more objective, but you can read whatever you like into that.

I quoted that comment because it contained the more relevant issues of lack of objectivity (something one would hope a journalism degree might instill) and the silliness of the order of events, and because this type of smear campaign doesn’t merit any more time than I’ve already wasted reading into the source material.

[quote=“TwoTongues”]
Riiiiight, that’s why nobody picked up on this story in the mainstream media for the past few years, and that’s why it’s going nowhere now.

Many in the mainstream media have advanced journalism degrees. What point are you trying to make?

My point is you don’t write “drivel” “shill” “comtatose ronnie reagan” “no journalism degree” “a TV interviewer, not a reporter” “with only a BA in journalism” in a single paragraph and expect be taken seriously. At least by me. But then I don’t have a journalism degree either. :cactus:

I love conspiracy theories. The people who propagate them are always so entertaining. They quote wholly unreliable sources and become insolent when nobody takes them seriously.