Check out the original post in the thread
Don’t know, don’t care
I did check out the OP and yeah it doesn’t make sense why they would do so. If you don’t know what Danes call Greeks, then you’re missing a very important part of the argument.
If it were that important, perhaps you would explain it. Specifically, how it pertains to Taiwan having their own double standards regarding foreign citizens but complaining when other countries do the same…
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He was on 英國, final answer
I think people are missing some major context in this situation.
Some of the arguments used are what the PRC uses saying why does your government call itself 中華民國/Republic of China. Therefore you are Chinese as in a citizen of the PRC and commonly referred to as China in English now.
The issue with this argument is that despite the majority of the people of Taiwan now identifying as Taiwanese and not Chinese and almost no one involved in politics holds the stance that Taiwan should lay claim to the territory of what is now referred to as China. We are limited to what we can do. Any deviation from changing the ROC and its constitution will be seen as a Declaration of Independence from the PRC. China knows this, which is why they have kept us in this situation to negate any progress in our national identity locally and internationally.
And while western descriptions of how the ROC came about will say CKS retreated to the island of Taiwan. This is not the perspective of all people of Taiwan. We are not all descended from the KMT. Many of our families were here generations before the KMT and aboriginals even longer. Many of our families have risk their lives to oppose the KMT and fought for democracy and the right to self determination.
The decisions of CKS that led us here was before my time and we have fought for small victories in a losing battle such as a simple as removing republic of China from the front of the passport.
This is absolutely a concern of mine because multiple times I’ve had to explain at airports that I’m not from the PRC and I should use this customs immigration process. And my school in the UK freaked out on me for not going into quarantine when I arrived because Chinese nationals were required when I moved there for school.
You can focus on how it can be hypocritical or recognize that many of us have fought for our national identity with limited options and just would like to be recognized as Taiwanese without the fear of China killing us.
If you also want to talk about hypocrisy. Western governments would also never want us to change the ROC because we would lose our support as the one who initiated the war from China. And we continue to not be allowed to participate in the international community to build our national identity.
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That’s unusual. Perhaps your pasty complexion?
I get all that, but still if Taiwan wants to help citizens in foreign countries they should start by being more accommodating to foreign citizens here.
I’m pushing back against the “If you don’t like it here, go somewhere else” narrative. Which, as I said above, goes both ways.
Not so easy to wave off when the shoe is on the other foot
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I personally have always supported giving foreign nationals a path to citizenship. The restrictions were made to prevent the PRC from invading using this pathway. But times have changed. Taiwan is slowly making progress in loosening restrictions but i guess part of a democracy is things happen slow, particularly because it’s more of an issue not directly involving the local people.
But I do think Taiwan will eventually make real reform on this out of necessity.
But all I’m saying is. If Taiwan was prepared to change its constitution and form a new country. How many countries like Denmark is ready to recognize that country? So it’s not just an issue of Taiwan needing to change its internal views.
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That’s why I asked the question first, to provoke a thought and maybe set up some background prerequisite information. But you said you don’t care. I simply explained you were missing out on an important part of the argument, but you already expressed your unwillingness to engage. Why would I bother explaining it if I don’t even know what you know? Obviously it is related to the concept at hand, but you said you dont care to know.
How can I know where to start if you don’t even care to know? I’m not going to just spoonfeed random info to an unwilling participant. How do I know if I should start at square one or step 5? But if I am presented with snark, then it’s obvious that I am wasting my time.
Secondly, what Denmark is doing and what Taiwan is doing is not even close to the same. It’s not even the same sword so it can’t be a double standard.
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Hey, if you’re not willing or able to tell me why it matters here, I’ll assume it doesnt.
I don’t appreciate your snark.
i’m certainly willing to do so to a willing participant in the conversation. I didn’t appreciate that kind of reply.
I simply asked a question.
Whenever you want to make a point, I’m willing to read it
Did you not say this?
Would a reasonable person consider this something contributing to the conversation?
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You still haven’t said why it is relevant
Spit it out, or drop it
No. You’ve already set the tone. If you want to, you may engage with me in good faith.
When you’re interested, let me know.
Good faith would have been explaining the point in the first place
Taiwan is not even the only country to not allow foreign nationals to gain citizenship without forfeiting another. No one seems to have an issue separating ROK nationals as a separate country and not just citizen of korea.
If the argument really falls on demark saying “then stop calling yourself ROC” then there’s really no hope. Because unless Denmark or any country is prepared to form formal relations with a new government under a new constitution then we will always be stuck at stop calling yourself ROC, which is what the PRC wants.
Taiwan has been a friendly participant in the international community despite being shunned and its sad countries will still side with a malignant nation like the PRC.
And my point still stands
I just don’t think it’s a very sound point. Every country basically says “don’t like it, go somewhere else” with their own rules.
We can argue particular BS or any treatment of foreign nationals in any country. I’ve pointed it out for the UK for example in another tread. But I would never say I’m not going to recognize the UK as a sovereign country because I found it unfair how I’m treated in certain situations that Taiwan actually holds a much favorable treatment.
If Taiwan just had to give other countries a chance at for their citizens to have citizenship, I bet the government would do it. But Taiwan doesn’t reject other nations sovereignty and statehood and is willing to engage. No one is willing to engage with Taiwan equally.
Er, is there a TECO in Palestine? I’m assuming not, but I’m asking because I’ve been wrong before…