Did Dutch presence continue after Fort Zeelandia?

The Dutch colonial influence in Taiwan ended after Koxinga kicked them out of Fort Zeelandia. But were there any Dutch people there afterwards? I ask this, because I am in my early thirties and I’ve been told that a grandmother five generations ago is Dutch. Have not gotten that verified through genealogical records yet, and 23AndMe seems to disagree, so I’m wondering if it’s possible at all.

The story of Dutch heritage overall in Taiwan seems overlooked. I know that quite a few families in Taiwan have at least one Dutch ancestor in the mix. My wife knows some from Miaoli Houlong area in particular. Of course This doesn’t fit in with the racial purity bullshit promoted by KMT (same way most Taiwanese have pingpu ncestors in their family tree).
There could be another explanation however. As hansioux mentioned in another thread, we could be seeing evidence of a much older population mixing i.e. Melanesian influence. Check your results for this particular gene mutation!

blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/ … uHzo0XXdR4

I definitely have aboriginal ancestry, and have heard that some aboriginal peoples looked sort of European, whether if that was intermarriage with settlers or just because they looked that way, I’m not sure.

I’ve met at least three locals with Dutch ancestry. It definitely is a thing. But as with indigenous blood and even Hakka, some families may not even disclose the fact to later generations.

Don’t forget there were a lot of foreigners in Taiwan in the late 19th century when Taiwan was opened to foreign trade after the Treaty Of Tientsin . So 5 generations back would take you to that period.

Yes. The Dutch drove out the Spanish from Northern Taiwan back in 1642. In 1644 the Dutch rebuilt the abandoned fort Santo Domingo, and renamed it Fort Anthony after Saint Anthony of Padua.

After Coyett’s surrender to Koxinga in 1661, the Dutch stayed in the North, holding on to Tamsui and Jilong. In 1664, they rebuilt the Spanish’s Fort San Salvador, which the Dutch obliterated twenty years ago, in 1642, and renamed it Noord Holland.

By then Koxinga’d been dead for 2 years, his son Zheng Jin was in charge. The Dutch worked with the Manchus to attack Zheng Jin’s positions in Amoy and Kinmen, but the Manchus failed to deliver the promise to help the Dutch retake Taioan (Tainan). In retaliation of the Dutch’s attacks, Zheng Jin took Tamsui, and the two sides were in stalemate for the next 4 years, which made it difficult for the Dutch to do business. Eventually the Dutch left for good in 1668, after blowing up their Noord Holland fort.

[quote=“Celestialnaut”]
I ask this, because I am in my early thirties and I’ve been told that a grandmother five generations ago is Dutch. Have not gotten that verified through genealogical records yet, and 23AndMe seems to disagree, so I’m wondering if it’s possible at all.[/quote]

If you are a woman and that Dutch grandmother is a direct maternal ancestor, meaning she is your mother’s mother’s mother’s mother’s mother’s mother’s or something like that, then a mtDNA test from you could determine if that was the case.

Hansioux, a generation is 30 years, so there is no way 5 cycles gets us back to 1668.

I was thinking that as well. It would at most take use back to the Qing dynasty.

I was thinking that as well. It would at most take use back to the Qing dynasty.[/quote]

Which is why I think her European ancestor may well have come over in the late 19th century after Taiwan was opened up to foreign trade.

Good point. I’ve heard plenty of people throw “Dutch” around in connection with perceived foreign characteristics, probably a convenient moniker in most cases.

Good point. I’ve heard plenty of people throw “Dutch” around in connection with perceived foreign characteristics, probably a convenient moniker in most cases.[/quote]

Gives new meaning to that popular Taiwanese-English phrase “go Dutch”. :sunglasses:

Do they have the charts to prove it?

Taiwanese claiming Dutch ancestry is kind of like Americans claiming Cherokee ancestry: a common claim that’s usually false but can be true.

I was thinking that as well. It would at most take use back to the Qing dynasty.[/quote]

Which is why I think her European ancestor may well have come over in the late 19th century after Taiwan was opened up to foreign trade.[/quote]

I don’t think Asian man and European woman paring in Qing dynasty Taiwan was a common thing though. If that’s the time frame, it’d be more plausible for the grandmother to be the daughter of an European man and a Taiwanese woman. If that’s the case, there is no DNA test that can verify the claim.

I was thinking that as well. It would at most take use back to the Qing dynasty.[/quote]

Which is why I think her European ancestor may well have come over in the late 19th century after Taiwan was opened up to foreign trade.[/quote]

I don’t think Asian man and European woman paring in Qing dynasty Taiwan was a common thing though. If that’s the time frame, it’d be more plausible for the grandmother to be the daughter of an European man and a Taiwanese woman. If that’s the case, there is no DNA test that can verify the claim.[/quote]

I’m sure I read somewhere that Koxinga’s men grabbed a bunch of Dutch women and girls when they defeated the Dutch and kept them as wives. Although it’s more than 5 generations ago, legends can be inaccurate about dates and details while being based on a kernel of truth. Perhaps the family legend of a Dutch grandmother 5 generations ago has been passed on for 15 generations.

From wiki [quote]During the Siege of Fort Zeelandia, Koxinga executed Dutch missionary Antonius Hambroek and took his teenage daughter as a concubine.[37][38] Other Dutch women were sold to Chinese soldiers to become their wives.[39] In 1684 some of these Dutch wives were still captives of the Chinese.[40][/quote]

Not common, but it certainly did happen. George Leslie Mackay, for instance.

I also read that a bunch of Dutch from Tainan area ended up settling in Alishan area as they were friendly with the tribes from there. But it couldn’t have been very many. Im starting to lean towards at least some of the red hair being Melanesian origin…which remains in the han and later aboriginal population. So many people claiming a Dutch great grandmother just doesn’t hold up…it would have to WAY back. I read another estimate that there were only 200,000 people in Taiwan at that time and Dutch accounted for 0.5% of the population so MAYBE they could
Have a bigger effect through the years from being part of a founder population, especially given women weren’t free to migrate to Taiwan for a long time.

As for ‘Caucasian features’…they could be from some of the aboriginal tribes, Dutch, random intermixing through the centuries and also from more recent mainland Chinese who have more diverse heritage.

I bet you the Spanish, aside from religion, did spread the genes here. I have met clones of my Dad-a guy who already retired from this office- and my Mom -from Tainan, who also believed she had Duth ancestry- and I bet somewhere on this Island there is another Icon.

I have always believed there is a far more diverse racial component in the mix here in Taiwan than what meets the eye.

I was thinking that as well. It would at most take use back to the Qing dynasty.[/quote]

Which is why I think her European ancestor may well have come over in the late 19th century after Taiwan was opened up to foreign trade.[/quote]

I don’t think Asian man and European woman paring in Qing dynasty Taiwan was a common thing though. If that’s the time frame, it’d be more plausible for the grandmother to be the daughter of an European man and a Taiwanese woman. If that’s the case, there is no DNA test that can verify the claim.[/quote]

I’m sure I read somewhere that Koxinga’s men grabbed a bunch of Dutch women and girls when they defeated the Dutch and kept them as wives. Although it’s more than 5 generations ago, legends can be inaccurate about dates and details while being based on a kernel of truth. Perhaps the family legend of a Dutch grandmother 5 generations ago has been passed on for 15 generations.

From wiki [quote]During the Siege of Fort Zeelandia, Koxinga executed Dutch missionary Antonius Hambroek and took his teenage daughter as a concubine.[37][38] Other Dutch women were sold to Chinese soldiers to become their wives.[39] In 1684 some of these Dutch wives were still captives of the Chinese.[40][/quote][/quote]

Fascinating. I didn’t know that.

I’m pretty curious how much of this is borne out by genealogical records. DNA testing seems to provide an incomplete picture, at best. Isn’t it traditional practice for family clans to have copious notes?

The people who had the most contacts with the Dutch were flat land Aboriginals. Various Sirayan, Makatau villages, such as Tayouan (Tainan), Mattau (Madou), Tankoya (Kaohsiung), Pangsosia (Linbian) had sustained and mostly friendly interactions with the Dutch. To a lesser degree the Saaroa, Taokas, Babuza, Favorlang, Papora, Hoanya tribes in central Taiwan also had a lot of interactions with the Dutch. After they acquired Northern Taiwan from the Spanish, various Basay and Ketagalan villages probably also had extensive contacts with the Dutch.

Unfortunately, these people and cultures were decimated by Chinese colonialism, from Koxinga to the Qing dynasty. Under harsh discrimination and persecution, the survivors either dispersed to more remote regions or pretended to be Chinese as best they can. Most Pingpu Austronesians were matriarchal societies, that did not have the concept of patriarchal clans, nor did they keep copious notes. So in order to act Chinese, most of them had to make up copious notes for their family clan. Since they had very limited knowledge about China, sometimes there are obvious evidence of fabrication that leaves clues for later generations.

In addition, since they were Matriarchal societies, at one point the Sirayans would openly recruit Han males to marry into their tribes. These Han-ethnic men would eventually take over controls of the tribes, as the social-economical environment around them became predominantly patriarchal.

1 Like