Discussion on Miramar Demolition Event

Politics Taiwan Politics
#1

Cool, might swing by tomorrow while driving through.

That hotel is an odd one, and there are still people there “working”. Im guessing just checking fire alarms or something simple.

On one hand it is a shame to destroy it due to garbage and environment, but examples should be made. Turning it into a school or something might be nice, but a rich dick club is one of the poorer ideas coming from the totally not corrupt taitung government. Give it back to the people. I guess land and buildings are different issues, taiwan has an astonishingly huge problem to deal with in regards to land and law.

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Demolish Miramar
#2

Did it ever belong to the people?

And by it I mean the actual structure.

#3

The land, yes. Probbaly we shouldnt go down that rabbit hole…

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#4

Nothing wrong with a good rabbit hole!

It’s public land. It was leased to Miramar for 50 years as a BOT scheme for NT$30 000 per month. That deal has dissolved.

As for does the public really own public land or is it just collateral for politicians to flog off to developers? That’s the rabbit hole question.

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#5

Right, well I have some issues with paying to get into State and national Parks in the US. lol

#6

Alice, meet wonderland.

And we’re off!

But ya, no one thing really owns anything outright. The golden rule at the end of the day being the owners are the ones with the biggest guns. They no longer own it when they are removed. But currently, that land has belonged to people. Even, the people.

#7

I own my house…and guns.

#8

We all like getting things and not paying for them.

#9

I admit not being read up on this case but as I recall there were Supreme Court rulings in Taipei saying this structure is illegal. Why hasn’t the central government just rolled into the area with bulldozers? Why is this allowed to remain there with court decisions saying it’s illegal?

As it stands, it seems to prove a local government has more power than the central government.

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#10

I’m reasonably well read up on it but still don’t understand. Why there has not been a criminal investigation into the whole sordid mess is another good question. We know there were illegal acts - how is it there are no criminals?

The fact that ex-County Magistrate Justin Huang was appointed to the Control Yuan by Tsai Ing-wen (later rescinded due to an outcry) might give us some insight.

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#11

Meh, I doubt that is an intrinsic quality in sapiens, given that money is a totem for an illusion that can only be described in metaphor…value. I like to pay and get what I pay for, whether it’s a cheap fan from China that will break within two years if fortunate or my house which will increase more in said and understood value because of where it is and how much it cost. That’s how I see it, anyway. Other might believe otherwise. I believe they are free to do so.

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#12

The Magistrate is KMT. Her sole motivation is development. They build things, they attempt to encourage ill-advised local businesses to set up shop in that space, and then they invite big companies in to do what locals seem unable or unwilling to do. The only way anyone changes her mind is if they generate enough bad publicity over a long enough period of time.

Best of luck in your efforts. That shit needs to disappear.

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#13

Good luck with this. Short notice, or we’d have come down to support.

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#14

[quote=“TimesThree, post:13, topic:199819, full:true”]
The Magistrate is KMT. Her sole motivation is development.[/quote]

The economic side of the debate is important - hasn’t had enough attention. We were/are told Miramar would be ‘good for the economy’ - this was the justification. But is it really? The Miramar brand is/was all about shipping in busloads of Chinese tour bus tourists - who were going to ‘stimulate the economy’.

How’s that model looking now? Considering China banned tour buses when Tsai got in as a supposed punishment (which backfired) - then Covid? If they had been allowed to open, for sure they would currently have their hands out for subsidies - which they’d get.

Meanwhile, all reports from Taitung small business people suggest that “business is booming.”

Tourists like Taitung because of its natural vibe. You can’t get that in lots of places in Taiwan - it’s a valuable commodity. Miramar is ‘kill-the-goose’ type thinking. Before Miramar, the Shan Yuan vicinity functioned as a hub of cool small businesses. That’s good for the economy - and doesn’t cost the billions of dollars of taxpayers’ money that Rao is looking to funnel off into her white elephant preservation society.

#15

The old county-run set-up had a gift-shop, restaurant overlooking the beach, and wooden A-frames with wooden floors you could set your tent up in, nestled in a forest setting. It was nice, but I guess didn’t funnel enough money into local politicians’ pockets.

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#16

That’s it in a coconut shell! Taitung Government doesn’t like small business coz there are too many moving parts. How you gonna scam that?

They like big deals with big companies. Who’s gonna know if a few mil goes missing here or there? Keep it simple. In-house. Tried and true.

If you can syphon off public money/land while you’re at it, that’s perfect. The Taitung incinerator was a classic example. Miramar is the same play book.

Corrupt land development deal - public outcry - cover-up - negotiate payout to the company - allocate never-ending budget to “preserve the buildings and facilities”. Wash rinse repeat.

The only way to break that cycle is tear it down. Let that be the lesson. It’s the best option and by far the cheapest.

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#17

I would think the ridiculous relocation of Taitung TRA Station out in the middle of nowhere would also be a close contender.

Guy

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#18

Yep- used to take my kids for driving practice out there. Great expanses of empty roads for lessons.
OTOH, the old station, while convenient, was dangerous and noisy, and they have done a good job turning it into a park.
Could have found a better compromise site.

#19

Haha - i knew white elephant projects had a use - teaching the kids to drive.

The Train station is another interesting one - recommended location was halfway between Taitung city and the airport - not a bad spot - all in a line for a light rail connection later. Finally it was built in the middle of nowhere twice as far from the city as the incinerator.

Conjecture was that senior officials had backdoor ownership of the farmland there.

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#20

To be fair, the corruption along the South Link line seems to be as much with Taiwan Rail as with Taitung itself. So many scandals involving money—and even murder—have happened over the years . . .

Guy