Disgruntled Americans Emigrating to Canada?

Politics International Politics
21

The weekend after the election,my stepmom, told me about some guy she knew that was looking into emigrating. I laughed until I saw the saturday TT. On the sidebar there was a itsy bitsy note about how the website for New Zeland was getting far more hits than normal.Something about 2500 hits amonth and now within a week over 10,000., Wow.

Personally, I say good riddence to any jackass who wants to leave because Bush got in. This is where I start my "america is beautiful’ tune. Hell, America wasn’t built to run and funny all how that was our slogan after 911. If these people would put as much engergy in writing their legislators and getting on their asses about what’s being done, I think Bush and Co. would be singin a whole nother tune. But double lattes,mixed with Reality shows and SUV emmissions can lull you into a comtose state. :unamused:
All this talk about ‘emigrating’ show to me how good we do have it. I wonder if any of these fools would be able to handle life without what ever they feed their already overstuffed egos.
And I think the founding fathers would have my back on this one. If you wanna move to Canada, N.Z. or anywhere else because of better education or health care,etc. that’s creditable and I would support that. But because Bush won? Take one of the many anti-depressants on the American market and get over yourself.

22

At least your tax money doesn?t go to Francophone independence movements.

Hmm?Bryan Adams, Alanis Morosette, Avril Lavigne, Our Lady Peace, William Shatner.

How can Canada face shortages of doctors? They?ve been draining practitioners from third world countries for piet sakes, where are they now?

23

[quote=“MaPoSquid”]
Hmm. And you got your medical degree where . . . ?[/quote]

Nice try Mapo.

In May of this year a cancerous lump was detected in my mother’s right breast so I know EXACTLY how the Canadian health care system handles these cases.

Last fall my mother’s annual mammogram detected several lumps. They were small and so nothing was done at the time. However, my mother was requested to have follow up scans every six months. In April one of the lumps had grown. It was now big enough to do a biopsy. The biopsy revealed it to be cancerous.

Two weeks later my mother was in hospital getting the lump removed. She then went through about six weeks of physiotherapy.

When you get a lump removed in your breast you also have to have the lymph nodes removed from the corresponding underarm. This leads to decreased mobility in the arm, hence the need for physio.

Radiation is not started until after physio. Perhaps this explain why the fellow 's mother had to wait six weeks for radiation.

In any case, as I said, my mom did have to wait a few months before she received radiation treatment. This is not ideal but again, since the risk of cancer reoccurring is assessed over a 5 to 10 year period, a month or two does not make much difference.

This is the most ridiculous part of that guy’s report. When my mother was diagnosed she was given, not a pamphlet, but a 200 page softcover book explaining all angles of her cancer: from cause to cure.

In addition, on her numerous visits to the cancer clinic she was advised to bring along a tape recorder so she could record everything said. They advise this because it is important peopel understand what is happening but few are able to remember 40 minutes of conversation (especially when under the stress of cancer).

Questions were encouraged at every step. Furthermore, when it came to radiation and chemotherapy my mom was given a choice. She was informed of the likelihood of her form of cancer reoccurring and how radiation and chemotherapy would affect those odds. Radiation would significantly reduce the odds but chemotherapy would reduce them only by a percentage point or two: from 9 to 7% let’s say. My mom, being a health conscious women, went for radiation but not chemo.

She has now finished all treatment and is in excellent health and spirits having gone through radiation with almost no side-affects.

Would anyone else like to challenge my credibility on this issue?

Comrade I’m not going to respond to your last post. We’ve been together in numerous threads on the subject of health care and you’ve never shown any sincerity in the debate. In fact, didn’t I predict last time I demolished your arguments that you would not respond in that thread but simply skulk away like a Sunni insurgent, only to attack another day on a different thread but with the same disingenuous old points? :smiley:

24

all the health care talk is besides the point as anyone who can move to a different country on a whim can also afford good health care in the us or canada. if worse comes to worse, they can always come back to the us and buy the same high priced first class health care that prominent canadians buy. :slight_smile:

25

From an interview with Dr Brian Lee Crowley (he’s Canadian), an expert on Canadian health policy:

[quote]Crowley: The average Canadian province

26

And here’s an article by

Karen DeKoning,

Chair of SMCPC
Past President, Canadian Breast Cancer Network
Founding Member of the Breast Cancer Prevention Coalition
Member of the Board of Directors of the World Conference on Breast Cancer
Member of the Working Group for the Primary Prevention of Breast Cancer
Member of the Board of the Canadian Breast Cancer Research Initiative
Member of the External Advisory Committee of the Canadian Breast Cancer Research Initiative

[quote]In Toronto, the University Health Network, which is comprised of Princess Margaret, Toronto General and Toronto Western, have closed 15% of their operating rooms, causing thousands to be denied surgery and increasing waiting lists. Acute care beds have been reduced by 40% and staff has been laid off. Patients often wait 3 days on a stretcher before a bed can be found. Cancer patients often wait two months for surgery and 12 weeks for an MRI. Less than half of radiation for cancer patients is timely, and often they have to be routed far from home for treatment. As well, there have been ongoing problems with improper sterilization of surgical instruments leading to infections post surgery. Daily changing of hospital beds and cleaning of hospital rooms is no longer a priority. With one-day stays for many types of cancer surgery and inadequate home care, cancer patients sometimes end up back in hospital due to infections or complications.

There is also a major shortage of diagnostic and treatment equipment, as well as technologists. Canada has 2 PET scanners, which are used for diagnostic purposes, while the US has 200. There is a new cutting edge instrument called a gamma knife, used for neurosurgery, including surgery for brain cancer, which we do not even have in Canada, as they cost over $16 million. The US has 60. For the technology which we do have, demand exceeds capacity, causing cancer patients, whose lives could be in jeopardy, to wait past the suggested time lines for diagnostics and radiation treatment.[/quote]

stopcancer.org/voices/dekoning2.html

27

wow, all these examples …

did you find any examples of the system working, comrade? oh probably not, because that doesn’t make news. but hey, google away to find more random examples … it’s your free time.

by the way, this came from that blogspot you quoted (a blog, surely the most trusted source of info)

[quote]My mother told me this when I first arrived home (one year before her death)

28

[quote=“xtrain_01”]wow, all these examples …

did you find any examples of the system working, comrade? oh probably not, because that doesn’t make news. but hey, google away to find more random examples … it’s your free time.

by the way, this came from that blogspot you quoted (a blog, surely the most trusted source of info)[/quote]

So didn’t like the blog? That’s cool. But I notice you didn’t respond to the quotes from Karen DeKoning in my post above. :laughing:

Anyway, this whole thing about medical care came up because of Maoman’s post extolling the wonders of Canada’s socialist medical system. The difference (in case you haven’t noticed) is that you don’t hear Americans waxing poetic over America’s health system as a reason to immigrate to the US, now do ya? :laughing:

29

you are right. i took one of your “sources” and showed you the other side of the coin. my point was to show you that your own “evidence” spoke against what you said. and if you read the entire post (not likely, since it appears that you don’t even read through to the end of your “sources”), you would see the recommendation to actually do something about the situation. and karen dekoning’s article is similar, in that she says somehting needs to be done to improve the canadian system, which most of us would agree with.

why would you? is it really that much better? if you have a ton of dough, you can get your business taken care of faster. this is also stated in an example from karen’s article, about the guy who went to michigan (did you read it that far? or just see a title that had something negative to do with the canadian health care system?).

still, i’d like to know what your argument is. that the canadian health care system needs reform? as i’ve said, most canadians would agree. but are you arguing that the american system is a better one? or are you just posting random examples to fill your free time?

30

Read my reply again. Slowly. Use a dictionary if needed. Enroll in a bushiban and learn English. :unamused:

31

Well, atleast one was me – I wanted to see what New Zealand was offering. Not because of the election, but because so many leftist fruitbats seemed to want to look into it. Hey, if they’re offering a free sheep with every resident visa. . . . :smiley:

32

haha, but you’re a witty one …

you got called out on your own “evidence”, and then make comments about my reading ability. classic.

you are providing a service to show random examples of the canadian system’s failings (from a blog, no less), but have nothing else to contribute. thank you for this wonderous service you provide. we should all wait for more pearls of wisdom from the comrade. :notworthy:

33

The rash of alleged immigration speaks volumes about how serious people consider the situation to be. Last week, under threat of FCC intervention, 4 major broadcasting syndicates pulled “Saving Private Ryan” from a Veteran’s Day time -slot.

And that guy in OK going after lesbians…

2 examples of how fucking lunatic that country is going.

There was an interesting conundrum posited by a comic strip yesterday. A kid was confused about the morality and christianity-soaked Republican party. He was wondering if Jesus would be in favour of the death penalty?

That country is slipping into it’s Dark Ages. Not since the underground railway have so many people felt that America was a hopeless place to live. I, for one, am saddened to see this. Who knows what damage GWB and Co. will inflict on free thinking people in the next four years, but if I was living in America after 11/3/04, I’d be packed and gone before the last ballot got counted. The mere closeness of the race is enough to make me wretch. That there are that many supporters of such an evil little imp as GWB, so many that could be my neighbours, damn skippy I’d zip up my parka and buy a toque.

34

[quote=“xtrain_01”]haha, but you’re a witty one …

you got called out on your own “evidence”, and then make comments about my reading ability. classic.

you are providing a service to show random examples of the Canadian system’s failings (from a blog, no less), but have nothing else to contribute. [/quote]

You missed this numbnuts? It’s not from a blog…but then you’ve shown no evidence that it’s untrue. Reading ability? You seem to have none that I’m aware of. But then maybe it’s time to talk about the poor state of the Canadian education system. You’ll be our first example. :laughing:

[quote]And here’s an article by

Karen DeKoning,

Chair of SMCPC
Past President, Canadian Breast Cancer Network
Founding Member of the Breast Cancer Prevention Coalition
Member of the Board of Directors of the World Conference on Breast Cancer
Member of the Working Group for the Primary Prevention of Breast Cancer
Member of the Board of the Canadian Breast Cancer Research Initiative
Member of the External Advisory Committee of the Canadian Breast Cancer Research Initiative

In Toronto, the University Health Network, which is comprised of Princess Margaret, Toronto General and Toronto Western, have closed 15% of their operating rooms, causing thousands to be denied surgery and increasing waiting lists. Acute care beds have been reduced by 40% and staff has been laid off. Patients often wait 3 days on a stretcher before a bed can be found. Cancer patients often wait two months for surgery and 12 weeks for an MRI. Less than half of radiation for cancer patients is timely, and often they have to be routed far from home for treatment. As well, there have been ongoing problems with improper sterilization of surgical instruments leading to infections post surgery. Daily changing of hospital beds and cleaning of hospital rooms is no longer a priority. With one-day stays for many types of cancer surgery and inadequate home care, cancer patients sometimes end up back in hospital due to infections or complications.

There is also a major shortage of diagnostic and treatment equipment, as well as technologists. Canada has 2 PET scanners, which are used for diagnostic purposes, while the US has 200. There is a new cutting edge instrument called a gamma knife, used for neurosurgery, including surgery for brain cancer, which we do not even have in Canada, as they cost over $16 million. The US has 60. For the technology which we do have, demand exceeds capacity, causing cancer patients, whose lives could be in jeopardy, to wait past the suggested time lines for diagnostics and radiation treatment.

stopcancer.org/voices/dekoning2.html[/quote]

35

i didn’t say it was untrue. actually if you had read, i commented on it right here, twice in fact. see if you can find it, with your superior reading ability. you did miss it the first time …

[quote=“xtrain_01”]you are right. I took one of your “sources” and showed you the other side of the coin. my point was to show you that your own “evidence” spoke against what you said. and if you read the entire post (not likely, since it appears that you don’t even read through to the end of your “sources”), you would see the recommendation to actually do something about the situation. and karen dekoning’s article is similar, in that she says somehting needs to be done to improve the Canadian system, which most of us would agree with.

why would you? is it really that much better? if you have a ton of dough, you can get your business taken care of faster. this is also stated in an example from karen’s article, about the guy who went to michigan (did you read it that far? or just see a title that had something negative to do with the Canadian health care system?).

still, I’d like to know what your argument is. that the Canadian health care system needs reform? as I’ve said, most Canadians would agree. but are you arguing that the American system is a better one? or are you just posting random examples to fill your free time?[/quote]

wow, personal attacks, and a slam for everything that doesn’t fit into your little model. i wish i were privy to the type of education that you received. buddy, you got issues.

36


[url=http://www.moveonplease.org/yourfault.asp]It’s All Your Fault
From the bottom of our hearts, America: screw you. Screw every last one of you lazy lazy bastards! You ruined this country! We worked our fingers to the bone for

37

And alot of Canadians came to America and served in the US military in Vietnam. And almost all the draft-dodgers came back to America the day Jimmy Carter pardoned them in 1977. I guess they didn’t care for it that much. Or more likely, the Canadians didn’t care for them! :laughing:

archives.cbc.ca/IDD-1-71-1413/co … r/vietnam/
vwam.com/vets/canada.html

38

About half of them went back.

There’s no question that our health care needs fixing, and sometimes waits can be long (memo to right-wing nutbars: note use of word sometimes in previous sentence).

But the more interesting question that nobody seems to be addressing is that, while sometimes waits can be longer for 33 million Canadians, what of the 40 million Americans without access to health care?

I suppose the elephant in the room in this heated discussion is too huge for some of you partisan nitwits to smell it. Waiting two months for an MRI is a bit different from not being able to afford an MRI, don’t you think?

39

[quote=“porcelainprincess”]But the more interesting question that nobody seems to be addressing is that, while sometimes waits can be longer for 33 million Canadians, what of the 40 million Americans without access to health care?

I suppose the elephant in the room in this heated discussion too huge for some of you partisan nitwits to smell it. Waiting two months for an MRI is a bit different from not being able to afford an MRI, don’t you think?[/quote]
Except that it’s bullshit. Anyone in the U.S. who needs healthcare can get it. The “40 million” is people who don’t have insurance, not who “don’t have access to healthcare” as the left wants to paint it.

I went without any insurance for years during college. When I got a job, I got insurance. It’s not that big of a deal.

But even if I hadn’t had insurance, I could always go into a hospital for medical care. Even if you ignore the “free healthcare” of going to an ER and then skipping on the bill, as many (especially illegal aliens) do, there are charitable groups, and there are time-payment plans.

One of my former teammates was (and is) unable to get a private individual health insurance plan, as he has Crohn’s Disease. Note the “private” and “individual” bits there. He saves his money, pays for his own surgeries and treatment on time-payment plans, and actually comes out ahead of the game.

If he were employable at a regular job – which, largely by his own choice, he is not – he could do what another friend, who had child-onset rheumatoid arthritis, did. She would take a job, get on their health-insurance plan, and work until her illness made it impossible to function again, as it did every few years. At that point, she would go into the hospital for multiple surgeries, mostly joint-replacement operations, and she would then be in the hospital for a couple of months. When she got out, she’d go find a new job with insurance, and work at that until she was in too bad a shape to work any more, at which point the cycle would repeat.

In other words, these people have access to whatever healthcare they need. They just don’t have an insurance plan that covers every sniffle and cough. When they need medical care, as they do regularly, they get it, and either they or their fellow insureds pay for it. They could also declare indigency and get the hospital to pay for it out of the hospital’s charity fund. They could also pull a runner and leave the expense to everyone else who goes to that hospital – which is currently over 50% of the bill at any ER you go to, last I heard.

Nobody, not even penniless goatherding Egyptian conjoined twins undergoing forty hours of surgery to get separated, is denied medical care in the U.S. They just have varying degrees of inconvenience to get it.

40

About half of them went back.[/quote]

You’re [i]more[/i] than welcome to all of them. :smiling_imp: