[Divorce] not divorced in Taiwan, status home?

I spent my last 11 years in Taiwan. Unfortunately the marriage with my Taiwanese wife is in big trouble. We agreed to a step, which separates us temporarily. I go home to Germany and she stays here in Taiwan. The idea is, that we might find a way to be together again after a period of time. We haven

I was talking to some European friends on the telephone, and I mentioned your questions to them. They did some checking and got back to me.

According to what they found out, Taiwan does not have formal diplomatic relations with Germany. In fact, the name “Republic of China” is not recognized by European countries . . . . since they subscribe to a One China Policy.

In turn, one of these fellows called his friend in Zurich, Switzerland, who called another acquaintance in Munich, Germany, and that fellow said that “When you are living overseas, and get married to a Chinese, in order to have your marriage recognized in Germany, you should first go to the People’s Republic of China Embassy in your location of residence, have the marriage fully registered and documented there, and then take that documentation to Germany.”

[quote=“Undertaker”]I was talking to some European friends on the telephone, and I mentioned your questions to them. They did some checking and got back to me.

According to what they found out, Taiwan does not have formal diplomatic relations with Germany. In fact, the name “Republic of China” is not recognized by European countries . . . . since they subscribe to a One China Policy.

In turn, one of these fellows called his friend in Zurich, Switzerland, who called another acquaintance in Munich, Germany, and that fellow said that “When you are living overseas, and get married to a Chinese, in order to have your marriage recognized in Germany, you should first go to the People’s Republic of China Embassy in your location of residence, have the marriage fully registered and documented there, and then take that documentation to Germany.”[/quote]
Very funny Richard, and so helpful. :unamused:

Yes you are. If you remarry in Germany (or anywhere else, AFAIK), without first getting a divorce from your wife, you’ll be committing bigamy.

[quote=“foolAQ”]I spent my last 11 years in Taiwan. Unfortunately the marriage with my Taiwanese wife is in big trouble. We agreed to a step, which separates us temporarily. I go home to Germany and she stays here in Taiwan. The idea is, that we might find a way to be together again after a period of time. We haven

thanks for your friendly effort Undertaker! Well I am not married to a citizen of the PRC. But I guess it is true that my marriage is not recognized in Germany, hence my legal status should be “not married”. Which leads me to Sandman. I called the German Office in Taipei and the lady told me that I have to register my Taiwanese marriage in Germany (another gruesome procedure) in order to get my marriage acknowledged, and she added that this is the only way my wife could get a visa on grounds of being married to me for Germany. That information makes me understand that from a legal point of view, I am not married in G. Why do you think my status in G is “married”?
Actually I have no plans to marry again, I just want to find out which box I should check on a paper, which asks, Married? / Yes / No /. I don’t think they have the option Yes, but not recognized in this country.

Because you are. Would you be “married” in G if your wedding took place in UK? Hawaii? Just because your marriage has not been registered in Germany does not mean that the wedding never took place or that the marriage doesn’t exist, does it?

For example, how about a Taiwanese married couple that go to live in Germany. Would either of them be free to marry someone else because in Germany they’re “not married?” Of course not!

Okay, thanks Traveller and everybody. You help me to understand that I am married no matter where on this earth I am.

thanks Sandman, wo mingbai. you are right.

one more thing on my mind.
If I declare taxes in G, and choose the “married” option,
which might help to save money, how can I prove that I am married?

Shouldn’t it be enough to get English marriage licenses from the district court where you got married and have them authenticated by the German Institute Taipei? That’s what we did with ours (though before the wedding, the lady at the Standesamt in Germany was trying to tell my husband that he’d have to get the documents authenticated at the German embassy in Beijing :unamused: :unamused: :unamused: ).

HTH
Iris

Even if you only did half the legal paper work, and never registered in Berlin…You are stuck. Married.

Have you spoken with a GERMAN lawyer re: legal divorce.
You may be able to be" divorced" here, but still married in Germany.
That’s what I seem to have run into. But still working on how to get that resolved…my circumstances are a little different. Foreigners , married in another foreign land, not registered in either of our home countries. Living in a third foreign land. Its a real mess. :s

Generally, a foreign marriage is valid under German law if all of the legal provisions of that foreign country are abided. This means that so long as you and your wife’s marriage was properly executed under ROC laws, then, it is a valid marraige prima facie.

Albeit, as the German Trade Office pointed out, you need to undergo further registration process in Germany for it to be fully recognized.

Given German’s “One China policy”, absence of diplomatic relations and lack of judicial recognition/comity between ROC-Germany courts, your situation is not as straightforward as it seems and remains untested under German law.

You should remember that:

  1. Nothing can prevent your wife from bringing legal action in German courts against you. She could claim maintenance, child support, share to your assets, etc.

  2. Your failure to comply with the registration process is merely a procedural defect, and a good lawyer can argue that it does not prevent your marriage from being valid. Afterall, procedural defects are curable and not fatal to substantive laws.

  3. A good lawyer can always ask the court to consider ancillary matters such as both of you lived as husband and wife in Taiwan (your country of ordinary residence), and therefore, your wife is your de facto partner in law although not officially recognized as law. If successful, she could claim support, etc from you.

  4. Alternatively, she can launch a 2-way strategy attach by: in addition to taking legal action in Germany, she could concurrently take legal action here and obtain a judgment against you for child support, etc. Either way there is no escape.

danke, thanks everyone for your time and your hints.
If I should not come back to Taiwan, I will still be in contact with my wife and I guess we would agree to get divorced and hence work this out together.
Wow CX, you paint a picture I hope I don’t have to face. I guess it is not wrong to think about a worst case scenario though. My wife agrees to my idea to move back to Germany alone. The fact that I move back can’t be held to my disadvantage. We both struggle to stay together, it’s not that I want to run away or she wants to get rid of me. Still things can get nasty, I know.
We have no kids and we both work. If I am unemployed back in Germany, I might as well ask her to support me.

You should go to a German court and file for divorce. As to the name of your spouse, write “unknown.” If they check their records and decide that a person in your situation cannot get divorced, then you will know for sure that you are not married (in Germany).

foolAQ:

You mentioned that you and your wife are thinking about divorce. It is probably a practicable and fair solution for both parties. Reasons:

  1. There is nothing under ROC law to prevent you both from getting married again in the future, if eventually both of you decide to get back together again and re-marry. It did happen for Taiwanese couples. All that is required is for both of you to go through the civil registration process again (if in Taipei, its at Hsindian Distric Crt).

  2. Its also fair for both parties because neither of you can prevent the other from meeting other people/partner.

Suggestion:
There is a “quickie” way to get divorced under Taiwanese law, i.e., by way of divorce agreement mutually agreed by both parties. You need to prepare an agreement that provides for arrangements (e.g., property, financial support, money in bank a/c, ownership over other assets such as car, tv, etc.) and it must be witnesses by 2 person.

Most law firms (small and mid-sized firms) can draft this agreement. I recommend it because its more professional, less likely to be challenged, and for convenience’s sake. Based on your simple description (no kids, no dispute/major disagreement/contentious issues, etc), a good lawyer will probably bill 5-10 hrs work for this kind of work. Your matter is not a complicated matter. Generally, small firms charge NT$2,000-3,000 per hr or charge a fixed-fee for this kind of work. Do not agree with your lawyer until you get an acceptable cost estimate and are satisfied with their explanation, service itemization and legal competency/skills. There are some unscrupulous ones that are insensitive toward client’s needs/problems.

Ultimately, both of you must come out with some agreed points first, before seeing a lawyer. And remember, its best to discuss amicably with your wife and work out a solution acceptable for both. It may help save legal service hours time and thus, reduce legal bill. And, spare you the trouble/pain of court litigation. Court action is time-consuming and cost-consuming, and the result/outcome could be uncertain (i.e., end up not in a way we wanted it to be).

Once both of you are agreeable on the final draft agreement, you should prepare several copies and get your witnesses to endorse their personal name seals on it and photocopies of their ID.

Both of you then go to the Municipal office and sign it in front of the civil officer. Generally, witnesses need to go to the Municipal office. Caution: some Municipal office may have different requirements (minor variation), and you (or your lawyer) must check with the Office.

Once accepted and endorsed by the Office, the divorce is official. It is a valid legal document. To add international recognition for it, you may want to get it authenticated by the MOFA and German Trade Office. Its your lawyer’s job to advise and run the documents through the process.

Caution: check your residency status in Taiwan, whether your stay is connected by way of your marriage to Taiwanese.

Once you are divorced here, then you can start on a clean sheet because you have sorted your situation and settled the uncertainties.

Best of luck!

Thanks CXe - a quicky way, hum, sounds like euphemidm.

You should go to a German court and file for divorce. As to the name of your spouse, write “unknown.” If they check their records and decide that a person in your situation cannot get divorced, then you will know for sure that you are not married (in Germany).

“unknown”? I don’t understand why I should write “unknown”. I know the name of my spouse in Chinese and she has an English name, which is quite easy to remember.
I guess those in the German court would ask me to get divorced where I married.

[quote=“foolAQ”]Thanks CXe - a quicky way, hum, sounds like euphemidm.

You should go to a German court and file for divorce. As to the name of your spouse, write “unknown.” If they check their records and decide that a person in your situation cannot get divorced, then you will know for sure that you are not married (in Germany).

“unknown”? I don’t understand why I should write “unknown”. I know the name of my spouse in Chinese and she has an English name, which is quite easy to remember.
I guess those in the German court would ask me to get divorced where I married.[/quote]
I think this advice is borderline ridicious…how can you possible file for a divorce from someone whose name you don’t even know. A very feeble attempt at humor, I will hope or a few bricks shy of a load. :wink:

I got my marriage registered in Denmark based on an un-notarized english copy of my marriage license. One would imagine that when Iris can do the same thing in Germany, so can you. Moreover, if you are married here, then you should get it registered in Germany as well, as you remarrying would be bigamy. Moreover, if your wife after you married again sued you for that at a German court and could prove that the marriage had been properly registered in Taiwan, she could get you locked up for some time.

I’m no lawyer, but wouldn’t the decision of whether to recognize your marriage (in case the Mrs brings up the issue in German court) be up to the judge? Who would surely rule that yes, you were married…