I know that many of us are well aware that divorce rates in Asia have been rising for some time. But I thought that the article from where the excerpt below comes might be of interest to some of the folks here. I remember when I first came to taiwan in 1985, many of my taiwanese friends would remark that Americans get divorced too easily… “easy come easy go” is how my wife then commented on the state of failed marraiges in the US.
[quote]In Singapore, the number of divorces is up a third since 1990, while it has nearly doubled in Thailand. In Japan, a couple gets married every 42 seconds, but another couple will divorce before 2 minutes are up. In the past 20 years, the divorce rate has doubled in mainland China and tripled in Taiwan. And the divorce rate in South Korea now exceeds that of many European countries, including the U.K., Denmark and Hungary. Even in India—where a wife was once considered so immutably tied to her husband that she was thrown on his funeral pyre if he died before she did—sociologists estimate that the divorce rate is 11 per 1,000, up from 7.41 per 1,000 in 1991.
Do I see an opportunity for divorce lawyers in Taiwan or what?
Seriously, younger Taiwanese are getting a far more easy come easy go attitude than almost any westerners that I know.
Have problems - take the easy way out.
Not that divorce is wrong, sometimes it may be the best thing for everyone concerned. It seems that the some of these people jump into things too fast and jump out just as fast.
Funny this topic is brought up… Last night a few friends and I were hanging out… Apparently, one of them is having a hard time getting his gf’s family (Taiwanese) to accept a marriage. The reason being is they state that Americans will get a divorce over nothing, they give no effort… My wife’s family also had that concern before we got married…
What is so ironic though is my other friend and I both just recently got married and as with all new marriages there are challenges that are expected (especially since my wife is pregnant and those hormones are going nutz), but neither of our wives no how to handle any issue… My wife’s family actually went as far as banning their daughter from their house unless I am with her since every dispute, no matter how small or absurd she takes off to her families house screaming divorce… Like I said I have heard numerous times that foreigners especially Americans are bad, but this is crazy… I am not worried and will give my wife many mulligans since this pregnancy and hormone shit is causing most, but come on… dont think it is just an American issue…
I get pretty annoyed by the western divorce stereotype. Yes, too many couples in the States and other countries get divorces. However, when Chinese/Taiwanese people give me the lecture about the high divorce rate in the US, I go right back after them. I tell them that too many Taiwanese or Chinese couples get married and stay together for all the wrong reasons and that there are far too many marriages where the wife is abused but can not leave. Sadly, the response from many of them is “so what.” In their minds, there is no reason to ever get a divorce. I’ve known some who thought that physical abuse or adultery were not good enough reasons to split. Of course I shouldn’t forget that my grandparents had the same opinions.
True - it’s hard to say offhand whether the rising divorce rate is a good thing or bad thing for the people concerned. I see it basically a result of Westernization and everything that comes with it. IMO it’s not so much a result of the ‘fast fix’ mentality - while that might apply in some areas I still think the Taiwanese take marriage more seriously, for good or bad, than Westerners (as a society, not on an individual basis). For now, anyway
That was my experience with my first marriage. My wife had no idea about discussing issues, resolving issues and especially taking action on decisions made.
Too often, what I thought were agreements (and that means resolutions to do something or attempt to change behaviour) were seen by my ex-wife as nothing more than a face-saving way to end an argument.
In addition, one factor not yet considered by the posters above. The stereotype held by some Taiwanese people that foreigners will accept divorce more easily than Taiwanese is seen as an advantage by some young women worried that their first marriage won’t work out. The thinking sometimes is that marriage to a Taiwanese guy is a life sentence but marriage to a Westerner can be annulled and the girl can try again.
I still think the Taiwanese take marriage more seriously, for good or bad, than Westerners (as a society, not on an individual basis). For now, anyway [/quote]
I disagree with this point. I’ve seen too many marriages in Taiwan where the participants were pressured into the arrangement by family members. I don’t see how such behavior can be seen as taking marriage seriously. In these instances, what is being taken seriously is filial duty and not the institution of marriage. I’m not saying this doesn’t happen in the West, but I personally do not know anyone back home who is married to a particular person as a direct result of family pressure.
In Taiwan, when I tell people that I am 39 and have never been married, I often receive astonished looks and comments like “oh, you should be married already” and that I must be some sort of “playboy.” I’ve even had a couple of people here jokingly comment that I am still a “xiao hai dz” because I am not married.
While I don’t interpret any harm in these comments, I can’t recall my singleness being such an issue back home. I always explain to these people that I am single because I take marriage very seriously and have yet to meet a person with whom I could spend the rest of my life. This last comment usually receives a blank stare.
Does one take marriage more seriously by marrying a person to satisfy the expectations of others, whether familial or societal, or by making a personal decision that he or she wants to be with this person forever? I think the latter situation is more common in the West.
I still think the Taiwanese take marriage more seriously, for good or bad, than Westerners (as a society, not on an individual basis). For now, anyway [/quote]
I disagree with this point.[/quote]
Generally, I don’t think Taiwanese take marriage any more seiously than Americans or other westerners. Sometimes I think Taiwanese don’t take marriage seriously at all.
Some people may say that I can’t prove it, but I will say it anyway: Taiwanese/Chinese men cheat more, and their wives are more likely to put up with it. Virtually every Taiwanese man I know in mainland China cheats on his wife and quite a lot of them have steady girlfriends or second wives over here. Back in Taiwan, KTVs and “barbershops” that provide sex services are everywhere. The few guys I’ve known back in the States who have cheated were all ashamed about it. They didn’t want anyone, including their male friends, to know. In Taiwan and China, cheating on your wife is a social activity on the same level as going to the golf course to play a round. Most of them see nothing embarrassing about being caught cheating; the only mistake they may have made was getting caught. I would also guess that the number of cases of STDs passed from husband to wife is much higher in Taiwan and China than it is in the west. I think that as a society, Taiwanese are no more serious about marriage than westerners.
I do agree with you on this point - I meant ‘more serious’ as in ‘it’s a bigger deal’ - as evidenced by all the fuss your unmarried state causes - not the concept of marriage the way you’ve defined it. Each couple takes their own definition of what marriage means to them. Taken in context my point was that this attitude tends to mitigate against the ‘quick fix’ solution to marital problems that people have suggested is the cause of a rise in divorce rates - while this may indeed be on the increase I was just saying that nevertheless I still believe there’s bigger societal pressure to stay married here than in Western countries.
Perhaps I should say they take the state of being married seriously?
I do agree with you on this point - I meant ‘more serious’ as in ‘it’s a bigger deal’ - as evidenced by all the fuss your unmarried state causes - not the concept of marriage the way you’ve defined it. Each couple takes their own definition of what marriage means to them. Taken in context my point was that this attitude tends to mitigate against the ‘quick fix’ solution to marital problems that people have suggested is the cause of a rise in divorce rates - while this may indeed be on the increase I was just saying that nevertheless I still believe there’s bigger societal pressure to stay married here than in Western countries.
Perhaps I should say they take the state of being married seriously? [/quote]
Understood. It just bugs me sometimes when I hear people in Taiwan make comments that marriage here is somehow more valued or sacred than in the West. Staying in a lousy marriage to save face does not show that the people value marriage, it only shows that they care about face.
That’s an excellent point. And it is illustrative of the difficulty in discussing certain matters when Western people and Asians define terms such as “family values” diferently.
Why, if Asian family values are so rock solid, is extramarital sex so common in Asia? The answer, IMO, is partly due to the fact that when referring to “family values”, Asians generally place much more value on filial piety than on marital fidelity.
Based on personal experience, this might be true. A good local friend of mine (who is much older than I am) has told me of his girlfriends and street girls outside of his marriage. The shocking thing for me to hear was that his wife actually condones the behavior. If I remember correctly, he said that when he went over the proposition with her of having extramarital relations, his main reason was that his wife was too fat and he wasn’t attracted to her physically. But he still loved her. He told her this. She “gave him permission” (his words) to go fool around with younger, prettier girls.
Another local friend of mine has also routinely commented on his extramarital affairs when traveling (he works for KLA Air).
Add to these that many other local guys I talk to look at it as no big deal to cheat on their spouses. For someone as fairly traditional about marriage views as me, I am shocked beyond recall by these attitudes. :s
I think you might want to take a longer view of divorce. In the early days of the Japanese era it was common, about 1 in 6, if I remember my Barclay. So are we looking at radical social change, or rather a natural upswing in the long cycle?
In any case, given the nature of Taiwanese men, it is hardly suprising that the divorce rate is rising rapidly when women get freedom. As my Taiwanese wife says scathingly: “There are no good Chinese men. Even the good ones are bad.”
Vorkosigan
Question: Why, Mr. A-bian? Why? Why do you persist?"
Answer: “May as well ask why we breathe. If we stop breathing, we’ll die. If we stop fighting, the world will die.”
I think a lot of the problems are based on immaturity. Chinese start dating very late (nowadays the younger ones have more one-night stands and the like, but this isn’t worth much in terms of making them more suitable for relationships), and get married too soon afterwards without really knowing how to treat each other.
Other problems include bad role models, the demands of the extended families, and the lack of a religious influence on marriage. (Buddhism and Christianity are the only ones here which have much to say about how to behave in a marriage, the rest amount to basically just bai-bai.)
Just curious: what does your wife say about her dad?[/quote]
LOL. That comment was made about her father. He’s a wonderful man, but my wife has made numerous observations over the years on the way he treats her mother.
…and as we have seen, in the US, 85% Christian, divorce rates are astronomical. As Barna, the Christian survey group, noted several years ago, the highest likelihood of divorce was among self-identified evangelicals, and the lowest among atheists and agnostics. Christianity, combined with liberal divorce laws, is more likely a cause rather than a cure for divorce. You want evidence? The lowest divorce rates in the nation are found in – you’d never imagine it – liberal Massachusetts. The conservative Christian states have high divorce rates (among their many social failings). Here’s alist
I don’t think there is any way around it. The reason that divorce is getting more common is that women have more options, and they won’t tolerate the men here anymore. I think in the long run divorce will fall off as the number of never-married women grows. In the US men made enormous strides in their behavior because they had no “out” – there was nothing in their culture that said they could procure wives from other climes, so it was change or die out. So they changed. But Taiwanese men can get wives from Vietnam or China. There’s no pressure on them to change. So my prediction is that Taiwanese men will make small advances, mostly cosmetic, on the equality front, whilst more and more women either marry foreigners or never marry, and more and more Taiwanese males put off change by marrying “down.” I have heard many of my male students express this thought.
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