You worry too much. According to your pictures the Chinese planes fly vertically and are therefore pointing in the wrong direction to be a threat to anyone except migrating birds and high-altitude mountaineers.[/quote]
Chinese air force jets can’t even avoid lumbering EP-3 planes. Why the worry?
[quote=“ludahai”][quote=“cybertai”]I
By the way, after reading some posts in this forum, I had a feeling that most of you “prefer” the DPP?
But this time, please, let the KMT win!! [/quote]
Perhaps because most of us are from democratic countries and we perfer (sic) a party who will represent democratic Taiwan rather than Communist China.
KMT win means the end of Taiwanese freedom, plain and simple.[/quote]
It must be nice to live in such a plain and simple world. Cybertai feels that CSB is making moves that might result in our losing our freedom for good by provoking China into effectively ending our status quo in a violent fashion rather than through negotiation. It’s not an unreasonable position, especially if the worst you face from a Chinese attack is actually staying here to deal with the situation rather than a plain and simple trip to the airport.
[quote=“Poagao”][quote=“ludahai”][quote=“cybertai”]I
By the way, after reading some posts in this forum, I had a feeling that most of you “prefer” the DPP?
But this time, please, let the KMT win!! [/quote]
Perhaps because most of us are from democratic countries and we perfer (sic) a party who will represent democratic Taiwan rather than Communist China.
KMT win means the end of Taiwanese freedom, plain and simple.[/quote]
It must be nice to live in such a plain and simple world. Cybertai feels that CSB is making moves that might result in our losing our freedom for good by provoking China into effectively ending our status quo in a violent fashion rather than through negotiation. It’s not an unreasonable position, especially if the worst you face from a Chinese attack is actually staying here to deal with the situation rather than a plain and simple trip to the airport.[/quote]
You are right. If there’s a attack, nobody (including Westerners) will be able to fly out of this island easily during the war. There won’t be any flight! Maybe I need to know some fishmen so I can leave the island with my family using fishing boats.
I know you just said you attended the KMT rally, but are you really convinced of this old Chen wins = WAR? That is the same nonsense that the KMT rolled out in their 2000 campaign and landed Lien in a distant third place. Remember those laughable commercials on TV?
It seems that you are another of what some suspect to be many who are not interested in standing up for your country – Taiwan. And if this means taking a gun and blowing some Reds away, that’s part of the deal too.
And if I am here and the Chicoms attack, I will help the Taiwanese in any way I can, unless they are all like you and just roll over and give up. In that case, you all deserve to be a province of the PRC.
I know you just said you attended the KMT rally, but are you really convinced of this old Chen wins = WAR? That is the same nonsense that the KMT rolled out in their 2000 campaign and landed Lien in a distant third place. Remember those laughable commercials on TV?
It seems that you are another of what some suspect to be many who are not interested in standing up for your country – Taiwan. And if this means taking a gun and blowing some Reds away, that’s part of the deal too.
And if I am here and the Chicoms attack, I will help the Taiwanese in any way I can, unless they are all like you and just roll over and give up. In that case, you all deserve to be a province of the PRC.[/quote]
This statement, like so much of this forum, is so fucked up I can’t even begin to answer it. The monumental stupidity people on this forum display, especially people who have been here a long time, longer than I have even, always manages to surprise me. You’re all for Taiwan, but you’d take actions that cause it harm? Great logic there. It’s also hilarious that everyone here is all “oh, democracy is wonderful” until you see that people believe differently than you do…then it’s suddenly “Don’t these people know any better?”
I never said I wasn’t willing to defend Taiwan in an unprovoked attack. I didn’t say Chen wins=war, but that he seems to be leading the country in a direction that puts it into a vulnerable situation. In fact I’ve served my country with two year’s military service and am still in the reserves (yeah, I know, you think conscripts are lame and military service is nothing near as hard as a day at the classroom/copydesk). I gave up my US citizenship for this country, so every time I hear some random foreigner say “Yeah, Taiwan should provoke China into a war, and I’ll be there with my gun,” I have to laugh. Yeah, right, ok. If all a cross-straight conflict that could devastate Taiwan means to you is “shooting some reds”, thank god you can’t vote.
[quote=“wolf_reinhold”]I know you just said you attended the KMT rally, but are you really convinced of this old Chen wins = WAR? That is the same nonsense that the KMT rolled out in their 2000 campaign and landed Lien in a distant third place.[/quote]Is that more nonsensical or less nonsensical than Lian=Selling Taiwan out ?
[quote]It seems that you are another of what some suspect to be many who are not interested in standing up for your country – Taiwan. And if this means taking a gun and blowing some Reds away, that’s part of the deal too.
[/quote]Do you have a gun ? How easy is it to shoot down a missile with it ?
On the other hand, most of us have a small sphere of influence here, so anything we say or do has limited consequences. At least we’re not making commericals for political parties that are diametrically opposed to everything we stand for. :homer: (Oh, I know it was a low blow, but you did set yourself up for it…)
Noone is questioning your patriotism, nor your sense of duty towards your country. I think it’s fair to say that supporters of Blue or Green all love this island. China could attack under any pretext, and the only party at fault would be China. Us arguing about what is the best way to stave off an invasion is a little bit like arguing about what length of hemline on a skirt best prevents one from being raped. Even one month ago I was pretty solidly “blue”. But after what I perceive as a lacklustre campaign effort on the part of the blues, along with some pretty stupid PR moves, I’m feeling much greener than before. None of which matters, because I can’t even sway my wife as to which movie we’ll see tomorrow night, never mind which party she should vote for. What I love about this island is how everyone has an opinion. Almost everyone is going to vote. In Canada, voter apathy is a serious problem. Not here. This island is just abuzz with excitement. I think that’s a good thing. If China invades, that’s horrible, but it’s not like they’re a political entity that can be reasoned with. Fuck them, let Taiwan vote for the man they want to vote for. Blue, green, it’s all good. Ot at least it’s all equally bad. The most important thing is that everyone here on the island is participating in democracy. It’s the best defence we have against the reds.
(If the greens make any more noises about Tongyong Pinyin, though, I’m gonna scream bloody murder!)
I never said that or implied it.
I am not sure what constitutes taking “actions that cause it [Taiwan] harm.” One could postulate that doing nothing about sovereignty could be construed as harming Taiwan in the long run. Unless you think that China will forever postpone the absorption of the “renegade province,” you have to understand that the “Taiwan issue” will be addressed sooner than later (like in the next 5-10 years instead of the next generation). Better to understand the nature of this situation as early as possible ahead of having to deal directly with it.
Let me say this again: If the Taiwanese are happy to be part of a confederation or “one country, two systems” or some other mainland-governed (eventually) appendage of China, then that’s how it will be.
If, however, the Taiwanese stand up as the democratic nation that it is, I will support them.
I am not sure that I would characterize my thoughts as “stupid,” but then I’m not the one who gave up my US nationality, either (a shrewd move, no doubt).
Think of it this way: China thinks, “Lien will give it to us, but with Chen we’ll have to take it away from him.” If you think the outcome is the same in both cases, then the “how” is not important. I think the outcome would not be the same; one would be fettered capitulation, the other standing up for what is rightfully yours with pride.
Most Taiwanese would love nothing more than to preserve the old staus quo – de facto independence. But what happens when that is no longer possible?
China has continued to squeeze and isolate Taiwan in the international community. And I don’t just mean forcing banana republics to switch recognition from Taipei to Beijing. Look at the flap last year over WHO intervention in Taiwan’s SARS epidemic: China asserted that all assistance had to be approved by and channeled through Beijing, and was willing to hold WHO assistance hostage until the parties agreed.
China has steadily tightened the noose around Taiwan, and THAT has greatly altered the much ballyhooed “status quo.” Furthermore, China has said that if Taiwan tries to indefinitely postpone reunification then that by itself constitutes a “provocative” act that justifies military action.
Sure, you can point to certain DPP actions and labe them “provocative.” But many of these actions are a natural outgrowth of Taiwan’s march towards a full functioning democracy. Granted, this year’s referendum is clearly an election year ploy by Chen. But China has said it views ANY referendum as a dress rehearsal for a vote on secession. Should Taiwan never use referendums in its political process because to do so would constitute “provocation” and change the “staus quo”? And why should sovereignty issues be off the table for a referendum – isn’t that the essence of “self-determination”?
The DPP strategy, rather than to passively hang on to an ever more constricting status quo [sic], is to play a game of brinkmanship. Yes, it’s a risky gamble, and it must count on the US playing along. I respect the opinion of those who believe it’s too dangerous a policy. But let’s be honest – the alternative is to acquiesce to unification within a few years.
[quote=“Big Fluffy Matthew”][quote=“wolf_reinhold”]I know you just said you attended the KMT rally, but are you really convinced of this old Chen wins = WAR? That is the same nonsense that the KMT rolled out in their 2000 campaign and landed Lien in a distant third place.[/quote]Is that more nonsensical or less nonsensical than Lian=Selling Taiwan out ?
[quote]It seems that you are another of what some suspect to be many who are not interested in standing up for your country – Taiwan. And if this means taking a gun and blowing some Reds away, that’s part of the deal too.
[/quote]Do you have a gun ? How easy is it to shoot down a missile with it ?[/quote]
It’s 21st century now and hi-tech weapon is all that matters.
Taiwan needs anti-missile systems and new jet fighters. :fume:
I hope Chen knows how to prevent a war in the next four years.
What can he do? My humble suggestions:
First, stop “dreaming” about independence, the “old staus quo–de facto independence” Taiwan has now is good enough.
Second, try to buy more advanced weapons like jet fighters from other countries, even Russia
Do you really think the outcome will be different if Taiwan fight the war with China?
Even Taiwan fights with pride and stops the invasion from China. What does Taiwan get? A wasted island and lots of dead bodies, most civilians like you and me.
I think one of the reasons US became the No.1 power in the world is that Americans never have to fight in their own land during 20th century.
On the other hand, England and France lost some of their edges because a lot of wars took place in their own land.
I think the Taiwanese should learn to negotiate from strength, and not from fear or submission. Do not initiate any talk to the commies, until they want to talk to you…
-So neighbour, what can we do you for…etc. etc.
but you did set yourself up for it…)
What I love about this island is how everyone has an opinion. Almost everyone is going to vote. In Canada, voter apathy is a serious problem. Not here. This island is just abuzz with excitement. I think that’s a good thing. If China invades, that’s horrible, but it’s not like they’re a political entity that can be reasoned with. Fuck them, let Taiwan vote for the man they want to vote for. Blue, green, it’s all good. Ot at least it’s all equally bad. The most important thing is that everyone here on the island is participating in democracy. It’s the best defence we have against the reds.