Do people in Taiwan usually avoid publicly stating “I am Chinese!” (“我是中國人!”)
20 years… this wan’t such a big issue… these days, it seems that you get dirty
looks when you say “you Chinese” when speaking to Taiwanese friends.(regardless
if they are KMT or DPP sympathizers)
now that I think about it… you rarely even hear KMT politician using that phrase…
odd, isn’t it? 
But I’ve gotten in trouble for referring to people as Taiwanren. Every time (I stopped trying fairly quickly), they would look angry and affronted and exclaim “I’m not Taiwanese, I’m Chinese.” True, some of these people look down on the Taiwanese as opposed to the Mainlanders who arrived after the war. So what are we supposed to say?
Instead of saying Taiwan Ren or ChongKwo Ren, say HWA REN. That shouldnt offend anyone.
[quote=“FurTrader”]Do people in Taiwan usually avoid publicly stating “I am Chinese!” (“我是中國人!”)
20 years… this wan’t such a big issue… these days, it seems that you get dirty
looks when you say “you Chinese” when speaking to Taiwanese friends.(regardless
if they are KMT or DPP sympathizers)
now that I think about it… you rarely even hear KMT politician using that phrase…
odd, isn’t it? [/quote]
What’s odd about it? Taiwanese are not citizens of Mainland China. I’m a Kiwi and it sure gets my goat when people call me an Aussie. 
‘Chinese’ (Zhongguoren) is heard far less than it used to be. In fact, I usually only hear it now when people are talking to foreigners. I suspect Chinese teachers still say it a lot.
Even if people are too polite to give you a dirty look, you can bet that at least 50% of the people around you will have their blood boiling when they hear it. I’d avoid it.
I also say that when I’m with a mixed group of Taiwanese and mainlanders.
Around Taiwanese, I just say Taiwanese. Nobody has ever corrected me for this in Taiwan.
I think if I said “Chinese,” there are some who would be offended.
I wonder though, if it’s okay to say that 華人 are all ethnically 漢人, i.e. most of today’s Taiwanese people trace their family origins to the mainland of China, even if they haven’t lived there for 300 years or so. Will one of you experts please weigh in and educate me? Thanks.
[quote=“Feiren”]‘Chinese’ (Zhongguoren) is heard far less than it used to be. In fact, I usually only hear it now when people are talking to foreigners. I suspect Chinese teachers still say it a lot.
Even if people are too polite to give you a dirty look, you can bet that at least 50% of the people around you will have their blood boiling when they hear it. I’d avoid it.[/quote]
What Feiren said. My wife’s grandparents came from China, but she much prefers “Taiwanese” to “Chinese”. 
She’s not politically “green” either. She just identifies with Taiwan, and not China.
Yeah but I would argue that most people in China and Taiwan have somewhat similar cultures (Han Chinese culture).
Not the same with NZ and OZ. New Zealand attracted pretty well to do immigrants. Australia, on the other hand, attracted the Botany Bay type of ruffians/criminals and lewd adventurers. 
Today though, Australia has a higher standard of living, while the Kiwis, sort of like Almas John, seem to be content with sheep, sheep and more sheep.
I can understand why you wouldn’t want to be called Australian if you’re talking about family history, but being a Kiwi these days is akin to being a Canadian (quiet, boring, and a dudley do-right).
When filling out a college application form, one student complained that there was a category for “Chinese” but not “Taiwanese” under ethnicity. She insisted she wasn’t “Chinese”. I had to explain that the term “Chinese” in English has far broader meanings, and can be translated numerous ways depending on context. In this case, it means 華人.
20 years ago, far more people from Taiwan called themselves “Chinese”. Now, even 2nd generation “mainlanders” prefer to call themselves “Taiwanese” even if they don’t speak the Taiwanese language.
But then it’s touch and go: it all depends on your political view. Loyal Deep Blue “mainlander” descendants are more likely to call themselves “Chinese”, while Deep Green southerners bristle at that term. And full-blooded Aborigines are not Chinese either.
I also say that when I’m with a mixed group of Taiwanese and mainlanders.
Around Taiwanese, I just say Taiwanese. Nobody has ever corrected me for this in Taiwan.
I think if I said “Chinese,” there are some who would be offended.
I wonder though, if it’s okay to say that 華人 are all ethnically 漢人, i.e. most of today’s Taiwanese people trace their family origins to the mainland of China, even if they haven’t lived there for 300 years or so. Will one of you experts please weigh in and educate me? Thanks.[/quote]
Huaren refers to people who are culturally Chinese. It’s a broader term. Something like ‘European’ rather than a specific nationality such as ‘Dutch’. or ‘Italian’. The problem with ‘Zhongguoren’ is that it refers to a specific nationality. Citizens of China. Since most people in Taiwan don’t consider themselves to be citizens of China (i.e. the PRC), phrases like ‘I am Chinese’ don’t go over so well in Taiwan.
‘Taiwanese’ is broadly accepted outside deep blue circles. Most third generation mainlanders don’t have a problem with it.
‘Hanren’ is a bit problematic. It’s a racialist term that was largely invented to support the policy that the ‘Five Races’ of China (Han, Manchu, Mongolian, Muslim [hui], and Tibetans) are unified in the nation of China (‘Zhongguo’). In other words, it is an excuse for the Chinese to hang onto the Manchurian world empire that they inherited from the Qing.
But since Taiwan was already a part of China and doesn’t really have the same issue of justifying an anachronistic empire to itself, the term Han is somehow not really relevant on Taiwan and I hear it rarely. It’s much more common in China.
Also, while most Taiwanese certainly have roots in China, they also have non-Han roots in Taiwan. Taiwan was closed to immigration by women for about 200 years after the Qing defeated Koxinga. Ethnic Han men came to Taiwan and intermarried with plains aborigines in significant numbers. I don’t think that means that Taiwanese can or should disavow the cultural and ethnic heritage that links them to China in so many obvious way, but it does complicate things.
I think ‘Huaren’ is the best because it really emphasizes the idea that people are Chinese not because of their blood but because they have ‘opted-in’ to being Chinese. That’s how the Cantonese, the Minnan, and the Hakka all became Chinese in southern China. They are all assimilated non-Chinese peoples. The stories about immigration from the north are largely inventions to cover up their non-Han origins.
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Yeah but I would argue that most people in China and Taiwan have somewhat similar cultures (Han Chinese culture).
Not the same with NZ and OZ. New Zealand attracted pretty well to do immigrants. Australia, on the other hand, attracted the Botany Bay type of ruffians/criminals and lewd adventurers. Today though, Australia has a higher standard of living, while the Kiwis, sort of like Almas John, seem to be content with sheep, sheep and more sheep.
I can understand why you wouldn’t want to be called Australian. (I lived in OZ for two years so I can take the piss).[/quote]
Actually though the two cultures are very similar despite all the convict banter. A Kiwi landing in Oz requires zero cultural adjustment. You just throw a few more “mates” in your speech and watch out the bastards don’t subtly mock your accent.
There’s probably greater cultural adjustment involved crossing the Taiwan Straits. Different clothes, different accents, different vocabulary and speaking volume turned up to 11 on the internal amp.
Then she should tick Pacific Islander.
When talking about the locals, as opposed to foreigners in Taiwan and abroad and the Chinese living in mainland China and elsewhere, a save way is using “Guoren” (國人), “People of the Country”. This includes Taiwanren, Waishengren, Hakka, and indigenous people.
On a slightly related note, I was once stopped at China passport control for having two passports (I have dual citizenship) during the head scratching process the supervisor asked me why my Chinese was so good and how long I had lived in China. I unthinkingly replied that I’ve never lived in China but I’d lived in Taiwan for 12 years. Not happy campers. The 中國人, 華人, 台灣人 shades of grey are certainly sensitive ones to many folks.
I do.
Rule #1 when speaking with customer/immigration officers of any country: do not volunteer any information
(this applies to Comminust China, USA, New Zealand, Mexico, Austria, and Latvia)
Why would you argue that? Taiwan has had a much different historical experience than China. This was a frontier, a badly run one at that, and an immigrant society. Immigration touches on everything from the lack of long ancestry in most families, to the deeply religious nature of people here, to the mixed bloodline.
So yeah, other than having an entirely different historical experience, different DNA, entirely differently development patterns, different routes to modernization, different political systems, different geographical and climate conditions, and an entirely different collective memory (especially in modern times) when referencing key events, books, artists, social movements, and so on; other than all that, yeah, same culture. 
[quote=“Mucha Man”]
So yeah, other than having an entirely different historical experience [/quote]
You wouldn’t say that a lot of the contemporary history is tied up together? (at least 20th Century modern history?)
Both countries are Han majority with a sprinkling of minorities. I don’t that much difference.
Both are ruled by highly centralized, cadre type of political parties (KMT and CCP). Both countries were primarily agricultural until recently (Taiwan before becoming an Asian tiger in the 70s, China after Deng’s reforms). I don’t see that much difference from a development perspective if you discount the chaos of 1949-76.
The difference between the peaks of Yunnan to the tropics bordering Laos is not all that different from comparing Kenting to a snow capped peak in Taiwan.
You Splittist you!
Not to mention that China has never been part of Japan for fifty years either.
That’s the real reason for the “I’m Taiwanese and not Chinese” thing. Wanting to be Japanese as a result of 50 years of colonization. Parts of mainland China were occupied by the Japanese for a while, but it was a military occupation, so people didn’t get brainwashed that much. There were still underground movements to drive the Japanese out eventually and the ROC central government just moved West.
Taiwan however was an official Japanese colony and went through long periods of piece where people got used to picking up their customs, language, and superiority complex.
It’s not about mating with plains aborigines or whatever… Even if that were the case, the Minnan people in Taiwan couldn’t care less about aboriginal culture in general.